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    • Oh absolutely. Engineers are getting bent over the barrel hard... I'm shocked nothing has been legislated regarding their work hours..
    • I agree with you Bif,  just to clarify my original post was referring to Engineers,  as CAR’s does not specifically address their duty day limits or days worked it seems to be common industry practice/ opinion that there is no limit for them.   That is where the Labour code would take precedence if there’s no averaging agreement.   Even with said agreement no one can legally work 3 months straight in Canada,  That’s ninety 12 hour days straight.   I could be wrong.... OH&S and Labour code knowledge is somewhat absent in certain areas of aviation compared to other industries.  
    • For the record, I think the averaging agreements are perfectly reasonable given the nature of our work. Where the issue arises is when an employer tries to have their cake and eat it too, by (illegally) stacking the deck against the employee. Of course you'll never be ahead of an averaging agreement if on a given summer day you can only log 5hrs of your 14hr duty day on a fire, when the guy stuck at the hangar sweeping the floor can log 8hrs.
    • In short, no. The averaging agreement has to do only with overtime hours per the Canada Labour Code, and how you are paid out by the employer. The new regulations this thread was started about are CARs regs pertaining to the allowable lengths of duty days, rest periods, and flight time. So no, they are no overruled. The new regs, however could impact your averaging agreement in that it will be somewhat harder to get ahead of the average during a busy summer (limited to 8-13 hours vs 14), and thus be paid out less in the off season, or receive less paid time off.
    • None of these specifics are addressed by the wording of the averaging agreement that all us helicopter pilots are subject to. It's the same boiler plate basically stating that overtime will not be paid out unless you surpass 2080hrs on the year. The document does not define what does / does not constitute hours worked. For those interested, here is the link to the Labour Code information, attached is a pdf of the same. Note the case cited in What is meant by the term “work”?

      The Labour Program takes the view that work must be given a common sense or practical meaning in the context of certain industries and established practices. Flexibility to define “work” and what is to be paid for should generally be left to the employee and employer to negotiate.

      See: Ian Wilson and Airborne Energy Solutions Ltd. (YM2727-1457) 

      In general, an employee is performing “work" when the employee:
        is on any trial period or training required by the employer;
        is on travel time required by the employer;
        is at the employer’s disposal on the worksite and the employee is required to wait for work to be assigned or is assigned work outside their normal responsibilities; and
        is on a scheduled break granted by the employer. Labor Canada Definition of Work.pdf
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