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Robinson Vs Bell


OB1
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We are currently researching the purchase of an aircraft to service our operations.

 

For many years we had a 206 which worked but costs force us to look for an alternative. I would like to work confined areas with 500 lbs (2 men with gear), make 1/2 to hour commuter flights with three passengers and be able to handle up to 500lb sling loads.

 

I have looked closely at the R-44 Raven II and although the performance numbers suit our requirements I wonder how they stand up in the field. To me the doors seem a little flimsy and the absence of a baggage compartment would demand the addition of skid mounted pods for items which should not be in the cabin. Would the machine have the power to vertical out of confined areas with enough reserve to be done on a regular basis safely?

 

The 206 will do the job but given the difference in costs between that and a L3 the long ranger is prefered. The L3 would allow us the extra passenger capabitlty which is a major advantage for commuter flights as well as much heavier sling loads.

 

So it's either a R-44 or an L3. The cost differences between these two choices makes me think we can make extra flips into confined areas with 1 man at a time and have an adequate amount of reserve power with the piston machine.

 

The 500 thousand dollar question is how does the Robbie stand up.

 

I welcome any thoughts

 

OB1

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Call Ed at E&B Helicopters in Campbell River. They are The Robinson Dealer and service center.

 

Ed has several R-22 and R-44's in his fleet and also quite a few 206's, L4, 407 and a bunch more.

 

He is a no nonsense guy and I have taken his advice on several helicopter issues and he has never steered me wrong.

 

We had the exact issue you are faced with and chose the R-44 and it has been great with very little problem. In 7 years we have only had 1 day were a mechanical issue stopped us from flying.

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Sounds like you need a Hughes 500.

 

but thats just me :)

 

What kind of person are you mwitolla? Hiding behind a handle like "mwitolla"? :P

 

 

Seems like a big difference comparing an R44 to an L3. Or an L1 w/C30P or an L4 (you get all the extra jam).

 

What are the extra costs associated with the Jetranger? Did you consider an LR?

 

H

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I have been working beside an R44 for most of the winter. My engineer and I walked around it a while ago. I was impressed by the simplicity of design. Talking with and watching the pilot(s) come and go I think you would have no problem at all with 3 passengers and 1/2 hour fuel. As far as the sling load, no worries at all. The machine is constantly lifting 6-800 lbs, as we are on a drill program. Additionally, after talking with one of the owners of the machine, I was very impressed with the margins they were returning off the machine. There is no way we could run a 206 for those numbers.

You talk of buying a Longranger. The L-1(C30P) is, in my opinion, the worst variant of the Longranger series. I have flown them a lot and they are easily outperformed by the LR, although I think the LR has a higher operating cost. I have run an L4 a bit and find it substantially better, but with a huge pricetag.

I would go with the 44, cheap, maintenance friendly and will keep up (or outperform) a jetranger.

My 2 cents.

 

hg12

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I have been working beside an R44 for most of the winter. My engineer and I walked around it a while ago. I was impressed by the simplicity of design. Talking with and watching the pilot(s) come and go I think you would have no problem at all with 3 passengers and 1/2 hour fuel. As far as the sling load, no worries at all. The machine is constantly lifting 6-800 lbs, as we are on a drill program. Additionally, after talking with one of the owners of the machine, I was very impressed with the margins they were returning off the machine. There is no way we could run a 206 for those numbers.

You talk of buying a Longranger. The L-1(C30P) is, in my opinion, the worst variant of the Longranger series. I have flown them a lot and they are easily outperformed by the LR, although I think the LR has a higher operating cost. I have run an L4 a bit and find it substantially better, but with a huge pricetag.

I would go with the 44, cheap, maintenance friendly and will keep up (or outperform) a jetranger.

My 2 cents.

 

hg12

 

 

HG just curious what altitudes were you running your L-1's / L-R's at as we find our L-1 / C30 far better at altitude than a L-R or definatly the R44. B)

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Your right, the L-1/C30 will do better at altitude. I operated that machine for the most part on the prairies on fires. Probably highest density altitude I hit would have been around 3000'-3500'.

Definately to be taken into consideration, and overlooked on my previous post. I should also add that I have not worked around a R44 on a hot summer day at altitude. hmmmmm.

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If you are lifting 800 lbs with an R44:

 

A RavenII weighs in at about 1550lbs empty weight. Add 180lbs (for a light pilot). Add your 800 lbs on the hook.

 

You are now at 2530lbs and you haven't added any fuel yet. This machine grosses out at 2600 lbs. There is no provision for a higher external GW.

 

You have room for about 10 USgal of fuel. You are burning 15 to 17 Gal per hour.

 

You aren't going very far with that 800 lbs. (and my experience tells me that it would be a struggle just to get 800 lbs airborne with a R44II anyway). 600 lbs is a good grunt for this little popcan.

 

So does it out perform the old JetBox? Not quite in this aspect anyway.

 

cheers,

RTR

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You talk of buying a Longranger. The L-1(C30P) is, in my opinion, the worst variant of the Longranger series

 

The 206L came with a C20B

The 206L-1 came with a -C28

The 206L-3 comes with the -C30

 

The 206L with the C20B is a dog.

The 206L-1 is marginally better.

The 206L-3 with the -C30 is a very good aircraft.

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