Robinson Vs Bell

[hired-gun12]

Just to set the record straight, I only watched the R44. I am not endorsed on one nor have I ever even flown in one. What this particular operator is doing with his aircraft is not up to me, but I have seen him with two drums of fuel under him.

I was only throwing out what I have seen of this aircraft, and if it is being "over-operated" then I take what I said back.

[Skidz]

The 206L came with a C20B

The 206L-1 came with a -C28

The 206L-3 comes with the -C30

 

The 206L with the C20B is a dog.

The 206L-1 is marginally better.

The 206L-3 with the -C30 is a very good aircraft.

 

 

I haven't ever seen a straight L with a C20B. All four of those I've flown had C20Rs, still a dog...

[Coastal]

In my (limited) experience, the LR's are a decent, capable aircraft. I can't imagine a straight L, what a freakin dog that must be. I'm pretty sure that Canadian operates one out of Norman Wells, NT. Good for flying in the Mackenzie's eh?! :shock:

 

Anyone care to comment on capabilities/performance between an LR and an L1?

 

Oh, yeah, so that this isn't a complete highjack, I'll weigh in on the topic at hand.

 

No experience in the R44, but two full drums underneath sounds a bit optimistic to me. I'd take a jetbuggy any day.

[407driver]

If you are lifting 800 lbs with an R44:

 

A RavenII weighs in at about 1550lbs empty weight. Add 180lbs (for a light pilot). Add your 800 lbs on the hook.

 

You are now at 2530lbs and you haven't added any fuel yet. This machine grosses out at 2600 lbs. There is no provision for a higher external GW.

 

You have room for about 10 USgal of fuel. You are burning 15 to 17 Gal per hour.

 

You aren't going very far with that 800 lbs. (and my experience tells me that it would be a struggle just to get 800 lbs airborne with a R44II anyway). 600 lbs is a good grunt for this little popcan.

 

So does it out perform the old JetBox? Not quite in this aspect anyway.

 

cheers,

RTR

Gross on a Raven II is 2500 #

There is no way you could legally lift 2 drums unless your pilot is of the smaller stature. I don't know any little people that can reach the pedals

[Over-Talk]

The C20B in the early Ls had a water/alcohol injection thing to keep it cool during take-off.

I may be wrong but I thought that was called a C20J. (Am I correct anyone??).

And yes it was a dog, but the Jetranger II of that era only had a C20, so a C20B seemed like a step up.

 

If you have loads up to 800lbs, an R44 will work well because it is cheaper to run than a 206B Jetranger.

If your load is 1000lbs, a Jetranger that is light on fuel could lift it, but an R44 won't.

This topic now gets hi-jacked as R44s are no comparison to any of the following.....

 

Thankfully, later on both the 206s and 206Ls could use the C20R.

 

The LR versus L1 debate has been hashed out here before now.

Basically, the L has a lighter airframe but also a lower gross weight limit, so the two ships come out with a very similar useful load.

 

However, very few L1s with the C28 remain. Most have had the C30 conversion, which as mentioned earlier is a good move.

This is called a L1/C30P. An L from the factory with a C30 is called an L3.

 

Then the L4 is a step above that, and the 407 is a huge leap above that.

 

In my experience the LR was very cheap to run per hour compared to the later L models.

So, with 6 passenger seats it makes a great short haul machine, i.e. if you aren't flying too long between fuel-ups.

[hired-gun12]

Skidz, years ago I had the pleasure of flying a straight L. She had a C20B with water/methanol injection. I don't remember the procedure off hand, but I remember the kick in the vertical axis of the machine when you hit the injection.

I also remember that you had about 30 seconds worth of mixture to inject. lol.

I kept thinking, "this can't be good"

 

whoops. I mean Over-Talk. sorry 'bout that

[Skidz]

I flew a straight L on bags in James Bay two years ago. Every start was highjinks as the C20R starts pretty hot. It would spike right up to 927 every start. On cold starts, it would kiss up to the line and start back down right away. When the machine was warm, it would stay at 927 for 2-3 seconds before going back down.

 

Scared the crap outta me every time.

 

The only time I managed 6 pax was when they were all university environment grad students who happened to all be of the female persuasion...

 

The tail rotor added a lot to Tq readings. 10-15% easy. Had to be very careful turning while taxiing at max gross...

 

Doing telemetry with just 1 pax and full fuel was a dream though. Could go for 4 hours at a time cruising around at 60 kts and land with 200lbs left in the tank...

[hired-gun12]

Ya, now you mention it I recall that the fuel burn on the C20R was fantastic. I cannot remember the burn rate exactly, but I know it was around the 200lbs/hr at a reduced torque setting.

[Skidz]

We were getting about 225-250/hour average if memory serves (about 5 usg/hour more than a 206 with C20B). DOC was about the same as a 206B (within 10%).

 

To get back on topic, I've never seen or heard of a 44 hauling 2 drums, unless they were both half-empty.

 

I do know that a 44 can take off within power limits 500 lbs overgross. I've seen a 44 Raven (not a II) take off full of fuel with 4 pax on board who were not lightweights. This was a private owner who was used to flying his C185 on floats over gross and he just didn't care... :down:

 

So from this, I can imagine a 44 picking up more weight than it should, but knowing how basic the airframe is, I'd be worried about ripping the guts out of it...

[RTR]

hmmm...why did I have it stuck in my head that the RavenII had a GW of 2600lbs?

 

dopey me.

 

At any rate, although it can't compete with the JetBox in that roll, it does do a rather remarkable job elsewhere. It fits well in the oil / gas roll. Much lower operating costs, is actually faster than a JetBox when it's light and is a very reliable bird. Generally goes from 100 hr to 100 hr inspection with little or no snags.

 

Apologies for my GW error.

 

cheers,

RTR