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I for one, would like to see some kind of work or duty time limitation system. Not necessarily a copy of what pilots have, but something condusive to maintenance operations. I've heard rumours Transport has had something on the back-burner for years.

Discussed a few years ago here:


Fatique Risk Management, duty times for engineers


Not sure when new proposals might see the light of day... :unsure:

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Discussed a few years ago here:


Fatique Risk Management, duty times for engineers


Not sure when new proposals might see the light of day... :unsure:


Thanks for the tip, CD! I see you posted some related links in that old thread too. It'll take me a while to read through the documents, but looks like interesting stuff.


The obvious next question being, has anything developed in the intervening four years?

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I don't know if the above was meant as sarcasm. Perhaps you misinterpreted my post? It was an honest question regarding what plans HEPAC has for engineers. What issues in regards to engineers, have been brought forward and are going to be advanced by the organisation? I for one, would like to see some kind of work or duty time limitation system. Not necessarily a copy of what pilots have, but something conducive to maintenance operations. I've heard rumours Transport has had something on the back-burner for years.


Lunchbox: If that came across as sarcasm, I apologize it was meant as a joke.


I just don't what kind of miracles you expect. If you do not become involved in a movement or association, how in Gods creation do you think anything is going to happen. Do you honestly think by sending $65 to HEPAC that we are going to change what ever concerns you. The $65 dollars is much appreciated, but until we have about $10K in the bank, we are pissing in the wind.


I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money and so have other people.


You can rest assured that it is not only the present members that have to start talking in committees about their concerns, but the remainder that are not. You have a very difficult time when you do not belong to an association.


What does HAC do for you?


What does your local AME Association do for you?


What does your local Pilots Association do for you?


Within HEPAC, with enough members you can have some say about your future, within the industry.


It's not Don McDougall or any other member, but the membership within HEPAC that will bring about change that you deserve.


Cheers, Don


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So you start a topic to answer questions about HEPAC and when you do get a question which I see as a ligit question you get a bunch of humurous dribble as an answer!

If HEPAC wants to be seen and treated as a proffesional association start acting like one.

I suggest that the HEPAC members use their first vote to assign a member to answer the questions brought forward in a serious manner, not just anyone who "thinks" they should answer however they feel like.

I have expressed my concerns to a HEPAC representative that I believe HEPAC can be a very useful association to the helicopter industry and the good people in it, until I see the profesional side of HEPAC I will not be associated with it, but when and if it does happen I will be happy to join.


Todd Tkach

Gemini Helicopters



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Joining anythingis, to me, is a serious decission. I have seen people sign petitions and then the "leader" of the group manages to bully or convince the signees to stay onside as the agenda goes in a direction that many did not intend when they signed. Clear as mud I know. Sometimes good orators can get members to go along with bad ideas. In the end, everyone who signs up yet really has very little input, has there name put up as in agreement with an idea they could, potentially, vehemently disagree with.

Therefore, when I join it will have to be as professional an association as can be imagined, so that I feel confident personal views and axes to grind are not espoused in my (our) name.

With the answer given to Lunchbox, (both of them) I do not see professionalism, nor do I read an actual answer. I will not call it evasion but it is not openess the way I envision it. I have respect for some one who risks his income or savings to get an association started. There must have been some ideals initially to get that going. Tell us what those are and how you see them coming to fruition and then you may see some growth in membership. To tell me that you need lots of monney and that Lunchboxs' 65 bucks is like pissing in the wind is not very encouraging. In fact I would liken it to the speakers attempt to get this going as him pissing straight into the wind. I waste 65 bucks on a daily basis it seems but at least I have the sense to piss downwind. I am certain that comment made several people get off the fence and onto the "save my 65" side.


But then what the heck do I know! Excet that January is a chilly month in the Arctic and June does not feel a whole lot better!!





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I believe anyone that initiates a cause is to be respected for their proactivity. It is all too easy to be the armchair quarterback. I have read all the prior bs threads under different topics and can put that down as exactly what it was. As such I was very interested with the opening line of this topic....yes finally let's get down to business.

Unfortunately things seem to have deteriorated rapidly.

Item 2 of the mission statement "Organize members into a unified voice of professionalism and integrity"

So my constructive 2 cents worth....it is an organization in its infancy. Build the structure first, corporate governance, a full board, consensus on direction...all the things that build credibility both for a potential membership and to to the regulatory agencies.


Frankly at this point HEPAC has no business submitting a proposal to TC for administering SMS self regulation.....really, stand back and take an objective look.....representing industry, this new association that has a mandate target of developing $10k in membership, is submitting, based on the consensus of the 2 members of the board, a proposal to execute a gigantic multi million dollar undertaking that the federal government with all their resources admits they can't handle....oh and currently we are working from someone's kitchen table.


That may sound critical....but its factual.

Having said that the concept of a mentoring process funded by HRSDC is fantastic. If the enthusiasm of the board can be vectored to plowing through the red tape paperwork....this will have unanimous buy in from all members and in fact should help develop membership. In addition my own experience with HRSDC has shown they will fund the infrastructure development necessary to execute the program. A triple win!!

HEPAC will never solve everyone's problems or issues...no one can.

To summarize my longwindedness........baby steps guys

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Regarding the question/answer between Lunchbox and Blackmac:


I see Lunchbox asking the question "Which agendas regarding engineers does the association plan to advance?"


and I read the answer from Blackmac as saying in a way (and this is MY interpretation of it): We would like people to sign up, get involved and let the association know what your concerns and agendas are and we'll go from there.


That's the way I interpreted the answer.... how far off am I?


and for the record, I'm neutral on this subject... just trying to sift through the issues and discussions and feel things out.




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Guest Bullet Remington
Which agendas regarding engineers does the association plan to advance?




Interesting question. While I too am curious, a better question wpould have be more specific. That is to say, state an avenue YOU might feel needs to be put forward to advance us wrenchbenders.


From my point of view, that's a wide open loaded question. I don't believe in any circumstance there can be a specific answer.


So my question, which agenda/s do YOU wish to see Hepac address on behalf of the engineers? Not being sarcastic, I am curious to know what burns the hair of other engineers butts...except a flame about this high!!


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Heliguy has hit the nail on the head. All through these threads, anytime someone has asked what HEPAC is going to do, they have been told that you have to join so that a group of people will be able to present ideas, create the ruling structure, etc., to get this off the ground. Yet, unilaterally you have submitted a proposal to TC regarding SMS. licensing etc. Who gave you the right to do this and what if HEPAC fails to attract enough members to become a viable entity? On what strength did HEPAC make this proposal without a proper board of governance and the capacity to support such an objective?

What credibility do you think this gives HEPAC in the infancy stage, presenting a major undertaking like this?

As much as I am against HAC taking over, they can at least claim to have a qualified and historic organization, with credibility in dealing with major issues of our industry.


For sure, at this time any credibility that the idea of HEPAC may have has been seriously damaged by certain individuals who claim to represent it.


People jump all over Twisted Spar for his comments but he puts the truth right there to be examined. He may be blunt but the measure of the organization is the response it provides to prospective members.


How have you affected the credibility of the people in this industry by pre-supposing to have the authority to even submit such a proposal to TC without the organization to support it? Though the association may have merit, joining should not be a pre-requisite for information. Quite frankly, anything that has been offered to date is about as much information as any of the other internet scams offer.



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