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Heliguy has hit the nail on the head. All through these threads, anytime someone has asked what HEPAC is going to do, they have been told that you have to join so that a group of people will be able to present ideas, create the ruling structure, etc., to get this off the ground. Yet, unilaterally you have submitted a proposal to TC regarding SMS. licensing etc. Who gave you the right to do this and what if HEPAC fails to attract enough members to become a viable entity? On what strength did HEPAC make this proposal without a proper board of governance and the capacity to support such an objective?

What credibility do you think this gives HEPAC in the infancy stage, presenting a major undertaking like this?

As much as I am against HAC taking over, they can at least claim to have a qualified and historic organization, with credibility in dealing with major issues of our industry.

 

For sure, at this time any credibility that the idea of HEPAC may have has been seriously damaged by certain individuals who claim to represent it.

 

People jump all over Twisted Spar for his comments but he puts the truth right there to be examined. He may be blunt but the measure of the organization is the response it provides to prospective members.

 

How have you affected the credibility of the people in this industry by pre-supposing to have the authority to even submit such a proposal to TC without the organization to support it? Though the association may have merit, joining should not be a pre-requisite for information. Quite frankly, anything that has been offered to date is about as much information as any of the other internet scams offer.

 

carholme

 

Carlholme: It's very nice of you to form an opinion on something that you know nothing about. Maybe you can buffalo your buddies on AVCANADA, not here. If you bothered to read the pre-proposal you will see that it has a few (mandatory or we won't touch it with a ten foot pole) conditions attached. For your added edification ATAC was not allowed to submit a proposal, because they are in a conflict of interest. Now, in your mind , what does that make HAC??????. Or do you even understand.

 

Should you want additional information, contact TCCA.

 

TCCA is still trying to come to grips with what policy any NGO has to reach and as usual it probably won't happen till the end of the year, if ever.

 

Must be losing the vote on third reading.

 

MURDOCK: Thanks for the post, you seem to be the only one that understands English.

 

For the naysayers: The following is applicable, if you have something to say about HEPAC, why don't you read the reason it was formed, it as formed for YOU.

 

I don't know how in Gods creation you can't understand that. The answer is very simple.

 

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW THE INDUSTRY IS RUN???? Yes or No

 

DO YOU WANT HAC TO HAVE CONTROL OF SAFETY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND INDUSTRY SELF MANAGEMENT FOR THE HELICOPTER INDUSTRY?????? Yes or No

 

Do any of you see the predicament that the industry is in?????

 

You make the choice, because I won't be around long enough to worry about it.

 

Don

 

PS: What are you accomplishing by yapping on the sidelines, join HEPAC and make a difference.

 

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Chopperman: You make a good point with respect t having a dedicated person fielding questions. Right now, we're doing what we can with what/who we've got.

 

Carholme: TC isn't going to wait around for HEPAC to grow before they outsource SMS/ISM. In an ideal world, HEPAC would have gotten off the ground right off the bat three years ago when Don first instigated it. TC has asked for a show of hands from organisations who might have an interest in running SMS, and those people currently involved in HEPAC have chosen to put their hand up. If once we do get as you say a "proper" board, and those elected to it feel we should withdraw, then that's what will happen.

 

I think it's important to note that SMS was the catalyst for many of those who've given HEPAC it's second wind to come on board in the first place. Although HEPAC was formed three years ago, we've only been really working on getting it off the ground for about a year now.

 

To answer a couple questions I thought would have been asked but weren't:

 

Q: How many members does HEPAC have at the present time ?

A: We stand at about 70 individual members. These members come from just about every province and territory. We also have several operators about to be signed up. We're just working on the mechanics of that.

 

Q: When will HEPAC have a new board ?

A: We're in the planning stages right now for a November annual meeting.

 

Q: Where has HEPAC spent dues collected to date ?

A: The only major expenditures to date have been for the welcome packages and printing brochures. Most other startup expenses have been incurred by those members working on the projects. Detailed financials will be submitted at the annual meeting.

 

 

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No offense to anyone at HEPAC intended but I have to be honest. Seeing the way Blackmac conducts himself on these boards is enough to warrant giving HEPAC a pass. Just compile a "greatest hits" of his posts and it's pretty easy to get a pretty messed up view of HEPAC leadership.

 

The industry has treated me pretty good. If I don't like my job.....I quit. Easy.

 

The fact that HEPAC at this point has zero agenda as far as AME's go shows what a laughable state HEPAC is in. Why form a committee of any kind if you presently know of no issues that require your attention? A guy asks what HEPAC's agenda is and he was told to suggest an agenda for HEPAC to adopt? What was the point of organizing? Just to perform a case study to determine if a new representative organization would be of any use?

 

65$? Forget it.....let Blackmac sink more of his "thousands of dollars" into this. I'll be happy to watch it circle the bowl knowing full well that the present leadership thinks nothing of thumbing its nose at its potential members in the form of Don's endless BS.

 

I'm tired of watching this guy belittle every professional he comes into contact with on these boards. Tired of his thinly veiled "I know where you work and who you are" posts. With Blackmac firmly at the helm HEPAC will achieve great things I'm sure. :down:

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Carlholme: It's very nice of you to form an opinion on something that you know nothing about. Maybe you can buffalo your buddies on AVCANADA, not here. If you bothered to read the pre-proposal you will see that it has a few (mandatory or we won't touch it with a ten foot pole) conditions attached. For your added edification ATAC was not allowed to submit a proposal, because they are in a conflict of interest. Now, in your mind , what does that make HAC??????. Or do you even understand.

 

Should you want additional information, contact TCCA.

 

TCCA is still trying to come to grips with what policy any NGO has to reach and as usual it probably won't happen till the end of the year, if ever.

 

Must be losing the vote on third reading.

 

MURDOCK: Thanks for the post, you seem to be the only one that understands English.

 

For the naysayers: The following is applicable, if you have something to say about HEPAC, why don't you read the reason it was formed, it as formed for YOU.

 

I don't know how in Gods creation you can't understand that. The answer is very simple.

 

DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW THE INDUSTRY IS RUN???? Yes or No

 

DO YOU WANT HAC TO HAVE CONTROL OF SAFETY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND INDUSTRY SELF MANAGEMENT FOR THE HELICOPTER INDUSTRY?????? Yes or No

 

Do any of you see the predicament that the industry is in?????

 

You make the choice, because I won't be around long enough to worry about it.

 

Don

 

PS: What are you accomplishing by yapping on the sidelines, join HEPAC and make a difference.

 

HEPAC......I really do wish you the best of luck in your endeavours.

 

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No offense to anyone at HEPAC intended but I have to be honest. Seeing the way Blackmac conducts himself on these boards is enough to warrant giving HEPAC a pass. Just compile a "greatest hits" of his posts and it's pretty easy to get a pretty messed up view of HEPAC leadership.

 

The industry has treated me pretty good. If I don't like my job.....I quit. Easy.

 

The fact that HEPAC at this point has zero agenda as far as AME's go shows what a laughable state HEPAC is in. Why form a committee of any kind if you presently know of no issues that require your attention? A guy asks what HEPAC's agenda is and he was told to suggest an agenda for HEPAC to adopt? What was the point of organizing? Just to perform a case study to determine if a new representative organization would be of any use?

 

65$? Forget it.....let Blackmac sink more of his "thousands of dollars" into this. I'll be happy to watch it circle the bowl knowing full well that the present leadership thinks nothing of thumbing its nose at its potential members in the form of Don's endless BS.

 

I'm tired of watching this guy belittle every professional he comes into contact with on these boards. Tired of his thinly veiled "I know where you work and who you are" posts. With Blackmac firmly at the helm HEPAC will achieve great things I'm sure. :down:

 

Sorry you feel that way. HEPAC isn't about any specific individual. It's about us professionals getting together to form credible representation. Don isn't perfect, as none of us are, but he has the merit of being the first person to have gotten off the soapbox and doing something about it.

 

Go back three years and everyone was b!tcing and whining about this, that and the other thing. People were saying "unionise", people were saying "somebody should do something". Don actually did do something.

 

Don does tend to "shoot from the hip" in his posts, and it often pi$$es people off (including me). I can tell you, from having met the man that he does mean well and doesn't have a "hate-on" for anyone. Of all the people involved in HEPAC, Don is the one pushing the hardest for us to get this annual general meeting done so that members can elect a first "legitimate" board.

 

I think those that have signed on are seeing beyond the individuals involved in HEPAC and seeing what HEPAC can do for us in the future if we give it a chance. All that is required is for more people to get off the fence and get involved.

 

As far as there not being an agenda for engineers goes, do we need to wait for something to come along (like SMS) that does need attention before getting a credible association going ? Someone mentioned babysteps before. We've got to start somewhere sometime. It's obvious to me that there will be issues to be dealt with that affect us in the future. Do we want to continue just letting others decide what's good for us and just b!tch about it afterwards ?

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only 70 huh?

must be a common reason for the lack of support, it's been how many years now?

 

 

I was hoping you'd have said a couple hundred, because that would mean there was some sort of steam rolling forward. Seems more like the minority is supporting at the moment.

 

How many pilots and engineers are in canada anyways? I think the mountain is visible on the horizon and you guys haven't even started to climb it yet.

 

Are you guys advertising anywhere else but here?

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Like I said, we have to start somewhere.

 

As far as advertising goes, we haven't got much of a budget. A letter was sent to all Canadian operators this past winter. Word of mouth has been our biggest source of new members to date.

 

 

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