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There is nothing new under the sun...

I think it would be helpful for everybody to go back, all the way back, and read the heated debates that occurred before HEPAC, before many of you even knew of this place, and you will see that nothing has changed. Same old rut, and a worthy pursuit being pushed to the lunatic fringe.

 

If you go back, you will see that the original question posed by D.M. was whether or not an association would be useful. There was much interest, debate, skepticism, and the end result was HEPAC. The huge mistake I made was mis-interpreting the original question, thinking D.M. was trying to encourage somebody else to get an association going, not realizing he was talking about his own association. Well I got off my ***, and went ahead full steam, and went as far as starting the paperwork and began a grass roots membership drive until...

 

D.M black balled me as a trouble maker trying to unionize the industry, which was complete crap. I had some good ideas, and had the ear of some influential people, but D.M was the man, and you had better get out of his way, as the record shows. An association is not a union. It is a group of professionals who share common interests, beliefs and goals. End.

 

In it’s current state, HEPAC will never, and I mean never, be the voice of the professional helicopter industry. While you chew on that, many of you already realize that, don’t you. It’s time to move on. Start a new one with a new spokesperson who doesn’t berate it’s potential members. Fast forward to a general assembly, where some poor ******* gets up and asks a testy question, only to be ripped a new one. There seems to be some level-headed people involved who haven’t soiled there own beds yet, and they should take their experience, and start over. Or maybe not.

 

D.M will never give up his position or influence in HEPAC. It’s his baby, his legacy if you will. He is probably a decent person, although I have never met him, but he is not the person you want speaking on your behalf, and it’s a bit late for that now isn’t it? He will tell you that once you have a quorum you can vote in directors, but you will see his name all over the ballot.

 

I always insisted that the original concept must be simple. Start with a pilots association first, that way everybody who joins is familiar with the relevant issues. You can always add or join the engineers later. ****, maybe even start with the engineers! You might even want to break the country up into regions initially, and not this mammoth, if not impossible task of organising everybody under one umbrella. All this was brought up years ago ad nauseum, but the “executive” of the day wasn’t interested. In fact I knelt before the Don, asked for forgiveness, and offered to help with his own agenda, however I did not receive a reply. Just send $200.

 

I’m not going to go on and on, the record is skipping already.

 

It remains a worthy cause, and D.M is right that it is not about one person, but the doubts have been raised.........again.

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Bubbleboy:

You are untitled to your opinion , but you sure can rewrite history to suit your own outlook. You and another gentleman with the initials WH were promoting in the background and it certainly wasn't an association. If I'm not mistaken the both of you are working for CHL-EMS, nice association. Worried about what is going to happen at ORANGE.

 

Keep the Lie's coming.

 

PS: And thanks for the email congratulating me on starting HEPAC as you found the paper work to onerous. Just who the h*ll do you think you are accusing me of blackballing you. Would you please indicate where and when, the records are still available on this site, so go back and prove it or I will sue you for slander.

 

Otherwise, you should apologize or I"ll ask that you be kicked of the site.

 

Make my day, Don

l

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Well, I'm not sure if 70 is a good number or a bad number. How many of the "grass roots" pilots /engineers (non owner/operators) belong to HAC? It's been around a lot longer and as I understand, they sort of serve two different purposes. I THINK HEPAC is for the little guy and HAC is for the Top Dogs.

 

As a nonmember of either, let me ask, do you as a pilot/engineer think that HAC has your best interest at heart? Will HEPAC serve you any better? I don't know, but it will be interesting to see.

 

One thing for sure......... Most days, I think we are our own worst enemies! We can't even agree on anything long enough to disagree........

 

My 2 pennies worth,

R...

 

 

 

only 70 huh?

must be a common reason for the lack of support, it's been how many years now?

 

 

I was hoping you'd have said a couple hundred, because that would mean there was some sort of steam rolling forward. Seems more like the minority is supporting at the moment.

 

How many pilots and engineers are in canada anyways? I think the mountain is visible on the horizon and you guys haven't even started to climb it yet.

 

Are you guys advertising anywhere else but here?

 

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Looks like I touched a nerve there...

 

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I rest my case!!

 

I know it makes for good TV, but I don't know how you guys put up with this nonsense.

 

Anybody with half a brain would know that a union would not work in the 702/703 industry. No amount of typing from me will convince a certain person that I was NEVER for a union.

 

 

 

 

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Bubbleboy:

You are untitled to your opinion , but you sure can rewrite history to suit your own outlook. You and another gentleman with the initials WH were promoting in the background and it certainly wasn't an association. If I'm not mistaken the both of you are working for CHL-EMS, nice association. Worried about what is going to happen at ORANGE.

 

Keep the Lie's coming.

 

PS: And thanks for the email congratulating me on starting HEPAC as you found the paper work to onerous. Just who the h*ll do you think you are accusing me of blackballing you. Would you please indicate where and when, the records are still available on this site, so go back and prove it or I will sue you for slander.

 

Otherwise, you should apologize or I"ll ask that you be kicked of the site.

 

Make my day, Don

l

 

I rest my case. Blackmac you are a joke. :down:

 

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Looks like I touched a nerve there...

 

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I rest my case!!

 

I know it makes for good TV, but I don't know how you guys put up with this nonsense.

 

Anybody with half a brain would know that a union would not work in the 702/703 industry. No amount of typing from me will convince a certain person that I was NEVER for a union.

 

You must be terrified of getting sued! :lol:

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Wow What a response I guess I am stupid I threw in my $65 a while ago and not only that talked a fellow pilot into joining this organization.What do you want to see as an agenda for ame's /pilots or even just the office staff that work with you? Hepac is just starting out help out all I Hear is negativity instead of bashing why doesnt every body post One positive thing they would like to see hepac accomplish then maybe we will develope a positive agenda rather than cutting each others throats and yelling and screaming and never accomplishing a thing.Remember a group that works together is stronger than any single person trying to do the same thing. Oh yeh be nice lets see where that goes and leave your axes at home. Steve Schulte

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Well, I'm not sure if 70 is a good number or a bad number. How many of the "grass roots" pilots /engineers (non owner/operators) belong to HAC? It's been around a lot longer and as I understand, they sort of serve two different purposes. I THINK HEPAC is for the little guy and HAC is for the Top Dogs.

 

As a nonmember of either, let me ask, do you as a pilot/engineer think that HAC has your best interest at heart? Will HEPAC serve you any better? I don't know, but it will be interesting to see.

 

One thing for sure......... Most days, I think we are our own worst enemies! We can't even agree on anything long enough to disagree........

 

My 2 pennies worth,

R...

 

you've listed two options, but don't forget about the third....yourself.

 

 

 

 

I think one reason many have not jumped on board is they are happy with their current situation. Why change??? Why sink money into something that shows no immediate gains for yourself. I keep hearing the argument that people blow more in one night of drinking than they would joining the association...well....you can't tell people what to do with their money....the argument is silly at best. And drinking gives them something immediate, fun...and if your not some sour old man, and you're not drinking alone, you're drinking with buddies and everyone is having fun.

 

 

 

 

I know Freddie says that a group working together is stronger than one individual and i agree, but why band together when the majority are content. It becomes a waste of money and time. You don't need a possy of thugs behind you to negotiate a contract or hammer out a beef with your boss.

We saw a small group at the begginnig jump on the bandwagon to support the association, so all bets were in and the hand was played.....but it's not amounting to much. The players had a pair, ace high, and they went all in.

 

maybe it will be different in 10 years when the fearmongering catches hold of all the new recruits in the industry and those of us in it now have moved on. back 20 years ago it was different, 20 years from now it'll be different...with or with out an association.

 

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Lets let HEPAC have at least another year to get itself together, and lets get more pilots and engineers join up and take an active part in suggesting programs and directions Hepac should be going. Don't ***** about a lack of policy! Help make policy! Then and only then will HEPAC start to have an effect on the industry. And lets refrain from personal attacks. They are totally counterproductive.

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