Risk Management

[ACME]

So who makes it work? How does it work and who are the key contributing players making it succeed??

 

I think it is obvious who makes it work. We are all responsible. Stop expecting hand holding.

 

When that first fire call of the season comes along and your say, bucket training is not done don't be complicit in just letting it be signed off because hey your experienced and it is just formality anyway and the forest is burning.

 

The engineer says he/she needs more time to finish properly but no the customer is waiting and will gets pissed off so button up and get to it later.

 

The scenarios are endless and each unique to the circumstance. Remember there are policy and procedures that we are all bound to follow not to mention regulation. Repeating the same mistakes over and over because nothing happened the last time is just pissing on the graves of those who have gone before. Show integrity and moral fortitude, that is what professionalism is about. The oil will be there tomorrow and what burning tree is worth lives? The skiers might live another day.The endemic culture of reactivity as apposed to pro activity will continue to thwart attempts to properly manage safety no matter how many manuals we write or support organizations we join. We work in an environment where we must make independent decisions away from any formal support so don't be afraid to make the right decision. Those back at the 'office' who have the nerve to criticize good decisions for interfering with client desires or company interest have the luxury of indirect or no responsibility. If one does and another doesn't then any consistency of doing the right way is derailed. In the end the liability for any decision an individual makes will fall on the individual.

 

Safety and risk management does not have to be complicated. Stuff ego and confrontation back where it belongs and do the right thing. The consequence of such decisions will speak for themselves in the event something still goes wrong.

 

And with one quote I am done at least for now as it is time to find another job.

 

" I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use"

 

Galileo Galilei

[Blackmac]

Thanks guys for the replies to the SMS quagmire, I have never had more intelligent replies. :punk:

 

TCCA has always and will always make the regulations applied to Safety Management System. If the regulations are written in such a fashion that they are applied in accordance with what they were intended to accomplish, what's the problem???

 

In the past TCCA has written regs that were interpreted different ways or applied differently in regions.

 

The INTENT has to be the same for all operators and cannot be applied differently.

 

Before an operator would be put on suspension he would have X number of days to address the issue (s).

 

It would not be one auditors decision, but at least three in conjunction with TCCA.

 

In the past TCCA has always been re-active, due to lack of proper over site.

 

Well, with our policy and a clear and understandable, and applicable frame work, WE INTEND TO BE PRO-ACTIVE.

 

Cheers, Don :punk: :punk: :up:

 

[Skids Up]

WOW Bullet...

 

Not quite sure what to think about your remarks.

 

Guess it a prime example of how "we all" agree on so many things.

 

Put on you glasses, she's my dog, and she likes people a great deal more than you do!

 

To each their own.

[Guest Bullet Remington]

WOW Bullet...

 

Not quite sure what to think about your remarks.

 

Guess it a prime example of how "we all" agree on so many things.

 

Put on you glasses, she's my dog, and she likes people a great deal more than you do!

 

To each their own.

 

Skids Up:

 

When ever I post an opinion and/or a reply to an expressed opinion hereon, I expect that there will and/or may be a rebuttal posted.

 

For all intents and purposes, I agreee with alot of what you posted. It's just that my perspective on how to enact/enforce the SMS system differes greatly from yours. My opinions are based upon the results of the many manuals, including SMS manuals, for numerous operators, both Plank and Fling Wing; that I have written over the past few years.

 

As you may or may not be aware, the concept of SMS, as it stands now, requires that the Company appoint an Accountable Executive to be the MFWIC of the SMS program/system. The CARs specifcally states that the Accountable Executive must control the purse strings.

 

While the concept and intent of CARs is fairly clear to me, I can and have seen how the SMS becomes a laughable issue at several operators. I COLUD name at least 8 that I am very familiar with ( the mods would jump all over me a remove the names, if i posted) and, in essence, I was told that the ONLY reason that a SMS policy manual and Procedures were written/enacted, was (in four cases) because TCCA had dictated, and while the Accountable Executives has conformed to the dictates, none felt there was a need for a SMS program within there company structure. Three others were written to conform to the dictates and procedures required by Oil Company contracts, and one was written because the company actually wished to see and apply a SMS program into the company operastion/s.

 

There WILL be a constant barrage of opinions batted around UNTIL EVEY operator can and must operate with a SMS program that establishes some commonality across the board, and establishes a "Fair practice" scenario that applies equally to all operators.

 

Having said that there will be a heck of a tussle to establish parameters that are "Fair "cost wise to all operators. in theory, the purse strings for an operator such as the "Hummingbird"with it's global reach, will be or should be tied rather "loosely 'when compared to a local operator such as that operating out of Fort MacMurray. ( NOTE: These companies listed for comparison purposes only. The financial state of either companies are NOT based upon any factual information and is based upon estimated assumpstions only!)

 

In essence, Skids Up, feel free to post and/or feel anyway you wish about me ramblings! I am old so that';s to be expected. Or at least i expect it from you when you get my age!!

 

As for yer dog.....Ah, what can I say?? It's really kinda hard for me to carry on a serious conversation with a man flying with, or carrying a poodle or one of those Shitzho dogs around. Hey, not being judgemental, just stating a fact here, that's all!.........

 

Sorry if I offended ya dog, though! Seriously!!

 

And you're right. She likes people a heck of alot more then me! But that doesn't mean I'm a prejudiced SOB. I just hate everybody that same! I do try to be consistent!! :punk:

[Blackmac]

Hey guys, it seemed to me some of you are taking things out of context. Lets go back in history.

 

TCCA wants SMS delegated to industry not for profit organizations. HAC got involved when it submitted a proposal for Industry Self Management ( ISM) in the helicopter industry and for some reason TCCA seem to think that includes SMS and so does HAC.

 

There is nothing wrong with HAC doing ISM, excluding SMS.

 

Should HAC have control of both, the whole helicopter industry will self implode. Besides it is a total conflict of interest.

 

A Safety Management System has to be independent and unbiased and applied in a fashion adhering to the regulations as stated by TCCA and agreed upon in negotiations with the industry.

 

TCCA asked for proposals from the industry and are only now developing a policy to apply these proposals to or come out with a further set of criteria for industry to meet.

 

Should you want clarification on what I just wrote contact:

 

Don Sherritt

Director, Standards/Directeur, Normes

(613) 952-4371 | facsimile / télécopieur (613)952-3298

sherrid@tc.gc.ca

Transport Canada | Tower C Place de Ville, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N8

Transports Canada | Tour C Place de Ville, Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0N8

< <http://www.tc.gc.ca/>>

Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada

 

OR

 

Nicole Girard A/Chief Aviation Safety Policy at 613-991-9154.

 

 

 

[Guest Bullet Remington]

Don:

 

No, I don't think i'm taking anything out of context, at all. I am aware of the intented purpose of SMS and what the intented goals/mission is.

 

Oh, and thanks so very much for the humour in that last post!! .. contact Don Sherritt, ya ,, sure!!

 

While I'm at it, I'll flag down a cop and ask him to verify I'm not speeding!! (That's sarcasm there Don. Not pointed at you by at TCCA.!)

 

Just to clarify, I rarely if at all ASk TCA anything. When I contact them I inform them of what I am doing based up (and I quote them the applicable sections) of CARs.

 

I assume they are operating and establishing their guidelines and dicates from the same regulations I operate from??

 

Some times they really make me wonder though!!

[Guest Bullet Remington]

 

 

I think it is obvious who makes it work. We are all responsible. Stop expecting hand holding.

 

Acme:

 

I'm not trying to be sarcastic nor condesending here so don't interept as such! My intent with any/most of my posts are to encourage dialogue on any subject I consider relevant to the Canadian Aviation industry. In some cases I'll play the devil's advoctae if it results in the dialogue. In some cases, I have been known to take a cheap dig at someone, if I assume they can take it. In some cases I'm correct, some I'm wrong. In no case is it my intent to insult or offend any individual. I catch more flies with honey then I do with horse shyte!

 

Some good points in both posts. However, I won't comment on the scenario you described in your first post, because i have only one view of the situation. That's yours, and I am NOT impying that you are wrong, nor incorrect to what you may or may not have percevied nor the actions you took.

 

Having said, that, and assuming that everything you posted in your first post was/is correct, the above quote from your second post indicates that the system is NOT working. Hence you have verified my point/s.

 

As for expecting hand holding, are you offering?? Cause if U are you'd better have a set of humongous TA TA's!!

 

 

[BDVI]

Interesting discussion Gentlemen,

 

ACME This is a template we use to determine displine, I'm not sure if it is useful to you now?

(Hopefully i can upload it) If you are still looking for action i might suggest browsing the link below, everyone has the right to refuse unsafe work. If you were in fact removed from employment as a result of what you mentioned the employeer may be liable for more than he/she thinks.

 

SMS is about culture, working in an enviroment where everyone including owners and managers are on the same sheet of music. Bringing people back the same way they arrived in the morning, employees contractors, customers and the general public.

 

SMS should sound more like Simple Meaningful Solutions, keep it simple and do the right thing then document it so we don't make the same mistake twice.

 

I know i'm preaching to the choir! Culture takes time to evlove as do the systems to support it!

 

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/L-...a:l_II-gb:s_127

 

Just my thoughts....

BDVI

Just_culture.doc

[dimit]

Nice work, BVDI: Both the document, and the understanding of "culture" and "systems" that it implies.

 

D!ck

[Blackmac]

I agree with DIMIT, BVDI and it's nice to see people share as this is an industry endeavor.

 

Cheers, Don