Jump to content

As350 Problems?


Recommended Posts

Skullcap - I too have had problems with getting kicked off after typing a particularly long post (some tell me I tend to 'go on' a little :hide: ). Try typing it in Word, then pasting into a reply. I find that works very well.


Amadao said

I think Transport Canada's reaction to the hydraulic issue on the A-Star is unfortunate and I think they should have had a definite cause pin-pointed before issueing such a vague AD. If Transport Canada is setting a precedent and reacting to all accidents/incidents this way it will negatively affect our industry as a whole. I believe thorough investigation of all incidents/accidents is the answer and jumping to unfounded conclusions is not.
I could not disagree more. TC didn't know what was wrong when they grounded the 407 for FADEC issue, or limited its speed for the tail rotor incidents, nor should they have. The thing is, there are unexplained accidents that kill people.


If this CHL guy had suffered a hydraulic belt failure, three of them would be dead. Period. Exeactly how would you react if you were the responsible authority? That particular a/c was taken out of service by the owner long before any AD was issued in response - that's responsibility.


It doesn't matter if this problem is the belt, the servos, the rigging, or the turn signals, the fact is that we've had four unexplained incidents, four corpses, and three very lucky people. Until somebody figures out what it is, and how to fix it, there is a duty to protect.


The discussions on what to do about these incidents have been exhaustive and thorough, involving TC, TSB, EC France and the operators involved.


Skullcap said:

Spend some money get a qualified test pilot and go to different aircraft around Canada and try flying them without hydraulics, maybe there is a problem with non-training a/c, doubt it but hey do something.
Being done as we speak. We're also getting a visit from France in the near future.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 89
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic



Out test flying as we speak? That's the best **** news I've heard in months, I was hoping it would go that way!


I am not that close to any of these incidents, the last was a TC official faxed it to some operators who passed it on to me. But I will say again that there is an extreme lack of information flow from tc to general aviation. This is the supreme example.


People's lives and livlihoods hang on some forward thinking folks now.


Pass on as much info as you know, whats the worst that could happen? We agree with you? The only way we can help you to help us is to let in on whats going on.


Vortex is excellent by the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Since there are accidents and incidents all of the time should we expect to get and AD for every one? The question I would like to know is how TC determines when to issue and AD. I have sent in SDR's for various problems but they haven't led to any. To ground every aircraft everytime there is a problem is not a realistic option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Since there are accidents and incidents all of the time should we expect to get and AD for every one?

The ones that result in the aircraft becoming uncontrolable, yes. The 407 tail rotor episodes, the Hughes 500 tail gearboxes and m/r grips, the 76 main rotor blades, the 350 spherical bearings, etc., etc., etc.


The question I would like to know is how TC determines when to issue and AD.
I suppose just like every other organization - when there is a high likelihood of reoccurrence and the consequences are severe.


I have sent in SDR's for various problems but they haven't led to any.


Of course, I have no knowledge of your SDRs, nor do I have any dealings with them in general. I would only hope that if they were problems that could result in serious consequences, then they would have been addressed.


To ground every aircraft everytime there is a problem is not a realistic option


Who's grounding anything? When was the last time you saw an aircraft grounded, and what was it for?


This AD isn't even issued yet, and nobody here, including me, knows if it ever will be, so let's stick to the facts, shall we?


skullcap, the problem is, nobody knows much of anything right now. Hopefully the testing will get some results and we can get this thing sorted out in a hurry. Thanks for the comments on Vortex.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



The latest B3 accident was at dark I believe and pilot lost control in hover, began spin, was his t/r accumulator charged? Most Astar pilots do not know how to check this andwould surprise me if it was so here. Without that accumulator it would awfully hard to maintain heading with the power of a B3. Have had BA lightly loaded that was not able to complete a hovering pedal turn in a 10 15 kt wind due to not enough t/r contro was available.


Another B3 in Cal that was bent due to the collective not be locked while pilot turned off hyd during check. AD cam out to check collective locking mechanisms were not worn out.


Another lost when pilot flew 25 minutes to home airport and lost control in hover.(past a perfectly good airport enroute). The old addage of max 15 minutes came to mind from 206 days. Not sure what the certification process is for cyclic forces vs time vs physical stature(she was of small build), am sure she did he best and almost made it.


All these have one thing in common, there is a probable cause which is not the case up in Canada.


The latest incident with the BA in the cold is just that, an incident. UNLESS there can be proven that there was an anamaly that was not normal(ie loose belt, ice/water/fod causing loss in pressure) also why did the a/c seem to want to deviate left? Where was the wind, was there a crosseind from the left causing much right pedal to be used which in turn requires extra cyclic force to right? When did the pilot do his last hyd off training!!!!!

Find out answers to those and if all was ok and still nothing conclusive, then push some panic buttons quick before I do.



Link to comment
Share on other sites

I regard to the A-STAR hyd. AD. I have seen a copy of the proposed AD and it has limitations restricting the A-STAR to two pilots at the controls and -15 C. It list every part of the hyd. system as cause of potential failure (Section 3). I guess then, that every part of every system could possible fail and that we should restrict all flying due to that potential for failure. TC is out of control, maybe we should put a AD against them.(They seem to have a flight controlling problem themselves?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

re the 206 hyd failure.

I was told that as soon as practical means if a field is before the airport you should have landed there..I am sure a lawyer would find fodder with landing only at an airport.

A bit off topic,But I saw a kid declare an emergency with a hyd failure,(206)and the whole town showed up to see the approach to the 1 foot snow covered grass,instead of the taxi way 20 foot away..we had a time towing it over to the hanger.Pump bushings failed,

There is always a dozen sides to every incident.........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope your not in a position of authority with this obvious bias.


Leave the personal crap out of it. Had this gentleman not been able to turn the HYD back on, he'd very likely have rolled on his back like Mike did. His words. He stated in his incident report and to investigators that he could not control the aircraft with both hands and it continued to roll left. Those are facts, not personal biases.


You ned to remove your EC-coloured glasses and look at the facts in this case. Unfortunately for you, you don't have the facts - all you have is speculation and heresay, and are getting it third hand at best. Several dozen others have looked at the facts, and have come to a different conclusion that you.


Your experiences with belt failures with CHC are irrelevant. There have been a million failures of this stupid belt and the vast majority have been non-events. The belt on this aircraft didn't fail, and it's a **** good thing for those three persons that it didn't, for the reasons I have stated previously. Something has changed, and nobody knows what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allow me to throw something out here.

First I notice that we are dangerously close to sounding more like the " discusssion " just before the bar closes - egos to the front, common sense and manners to the back.


That being said I think CTD has hit the nail on the head.


Something has changed. But what????????


Have they changed or modified: Servos? Hydraulic fluid? Accumulators? Pumps? Control path? Switches? Torques on a bolt?

Is it a control jamming VS a servo jam. Is it happening at a specfic cyclic / collective setting?


If a collective servo Jams then the swash plate will have a different pivot point and all kinds of new and fascinating things will happen with every cyclic input.

I recall reading something about this some years ago - perhaps in the 355 couse book or RFM.



This was not a problem 10 years ago so something must have changed.


I realize that gross weights have risen so no hydraulic control forces must have also. Is this a factor????


Have they thought of throwing in the twinstar dual hydraulic pack - or would that be legally impossible from the lawsuit standpoint? ( If we modify it then you are admitting there was something wrong with it to begin with. )

Would that just double your trouble????


Play nice:

Fire at will:




PS Biggles: Home Feb 20 - alert XK47

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we "N" register our A-Stars we can operate them in Canada under the Bi-lateral Agreement with the U.S. This may be the only way to get the pilots PPC done, so why not sub lease our A/C to an American Operator and operate them under their operating license. FAA pilots license requires exams and a medical. A&P schools have conversions courses available in Seattle. No AD. No Problem. How's this for over reacting!

Heard through the grape vine that Eurocopter France has asked TC to temporaily delay the AD release until they are finished with their investigation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Create New...