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coastdog

Astar Or 407

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Ok, to work on it's the Astar for sure. It takes what? 2 minute to take the TRGB cowl off of the Astar and 15 minuts for the 407. To decowl the tranny and engine, its takes maybe 15 minutes on the Astar and you're done sometime after lunch on the 407.Don't get me started on the other cowlings. When you're up on the deck of the Astar you're safe as can be and risking life and limbs when you're on the 407. You have to regrease the TRDS splines every 100 hours on the 407 and that's a pain. There's still the annual on the mast and fuel cells and oh ya they're still the bladder type. Then there's one more blade to cover and tie down. The FCU is pretty easy on the Astar and a gong show on the 407. And as for engine work, the Astar is a pleasure and the 407 fuggedeboutit. Somebody stop me. The pilot's think the 407 is the cat's meow though. If you disagree with me, the gloves are coming off.

Well here goes...I fly both aircraft and fix the 407...got screwed over for the wrenching course on the 350...if it takes you 15 minutes to get the trgb cowling off...well put your coffee down first and it will go better...yes the cowlings on the 350 come off quicker...I only helped work on the 350..as mentined I don't have the endorsement and for now I don't want it...seen our staff pulling out 350 apart to do some calender inspection...keyrist...they had to split the trany..head was all torn apart...tailboom off..and on and on...real cost effective and fun...heard a few new four letter words...most started with f and ended with ing...407 is way faster than our 350...had to follow the 350 on a job...only had to pull 65% to keep up to her..finally said I will see you when you get there...longlining on 407 is a breeze...take the door off and your gone...350...well all my buds that fly them just roll their eyes when they start talking about the minnow bucket window in the floor...there she goes...no wait...oh yah..there she goes...never tried lining with ours...she don't have a hook...not a lot of room to work on either machine...but hey wait...if you got the cash...they make work stands for both...just ask alpine areo....never had a problem working on the 407...however..that mast retork...sorry for the spellingl...I always wanted to be an ingenner...now I are one...retork just plane sucks...and they keep changing the procedure...cause they can't seem to agree on how to do it...tiedowns on the 407 can be made up...hooks for each blade...very easy..similar to the 350's...no adjustments required for hmu...other than rigging likages...kick the tires...light the fire...computer does the rest...just watch where you set the throttle...our 350 never liked starting....tried several methods that where suggested by guys with bags od 350 time...just never was fun...could have been an fcu thing...I don't know....she would go...but as mentined you really had to work at it and watch the temps...both fly relatively the same..I find landing a 4 bladed machine easier than the 3 blades...as I was taught..on the 350...get her down..which is very tricky on a log pad with gaps in it...I'll take the 407..thanks

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From the wrench side of things both aircraft are not bad, coming off of 206's they are both excellent. I like the a-star for accessability, and the fact that you need minnimal tools to perform standard servicing and inspections, where as the 407 still requires more tools and more expensive ones at that to keep it in the air, however the big advantage the 407 has is the books, because no matter how easy the helicopter is to work on if it takes you 5 times as long to find and interpret the procedures in the manuals you end up saving no time whatsoever. and yes you have to take the splines apart every hundred hours, but you can do that on a 4 foot step ladder by yourself, the astar req's the blade pins to come out every hundred hours, witch you definitly can't do on a four foot ladder , and you definitly can't do it by yourself. I personally don't find a big difference in the total amount of man-hours it takes to keep either machine in the air. so really it all comes down to which a/c comes home with more snags, and I find that is usually the a-star, but they are usually not difficult ones just more of them,and though the 350 usually has more electrical trouble the entire electrical system is easy to get at, and easy to troubleshoot. I think I prefer the 407 in the field and the 350 for major work in the hangar. just my 2 cents.post-4613-1219430848_thumb.jpg

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From the wrench side of things both aircraft are not bad, coming off of 206's they are both excellent. I like the a-star for accessability, and the fact that you need minnimal tools to perform standard servicing and inspections, where as the 407 still requires more tools and more expensive ones at that to keep it in the air, however the big advantage the 407 has is the books, because no matter how easy the helicopter is to work on if it takes you 5 times as long to find and interpret the procedures in the manuals you end up saving no time whatsoever. and yes you have to take the splines apart every hundred hours, but you can do that on a 4 foot step ladder by yourself, the astar req's the blade pins to come out every hundred hours, witch you definitly can't do on a four foot ladder , and you definitly can't do it by yourself. I personally don't find a big difference in the total amount of man-hours it takes to keep either machine in the air. so really it all comes down to which a/c comes home with more snags, and I find that is usually the a-star, but they are usually not difficult ones just more of them,and though the 350 usually has more electrical trouble the entire electrical system is easy to get at, and easy to troubleshoot. I think I prefer the 407 in the field and the 350 for major work in the hangar. just my 2 cents.post-4613-1219430848_thumb.jpg

 

Nice picture, where was it taken? I gotta get back down east.

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mast retorque is a breeze in the 407...if you have the proper tool. Found a digital power dyne on ebay for $250, calibrated it for $140 and had an adapter made for about $900, takes about 5 mins to do a retorque and you only need a 3/8 T handle. Takes a little more with the Frahm on, but we are working on the boss to get rid of that. You cant throw the power dyne and adapter plate in your tool box though, kind big.

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Well here goes...I fly both aircraft and fix the 407...got screwed over for the wrenching course on the 350...if it takes you 15 minutes to get the trgb cowling off...well put your coffee down first and it will go better...yes the cowlings on the 350 come off quicker...I only helped work on the 350..as mentined I don't have the endorsement and for now I don't want it...seen our staff pulling out 350 apart to do some calender inspection...keyrist...they had to split the trany..head was all torn apart...tailboom off..and on and on...real cost effective and fun...heard a few new four letter words...most started with f and ended with ing...407 is way faster than our 350...had to follow the 350 on a job...only had to pull 65% to keep up to her..finally said I will see you when you get there...longlining on 407 is a breeze...take the door off and your gone...350...well all my buds that fly them just roll their eyes when they start talking about the minnow bucket window in the floor...there she goes...no wait...oh yah..there she goes...never tried lining with ours...she don't have a hook...not a lot of room to work on either machine...but hey wait...if you got the cash...they make work stands for both...just ask alpine areo....never had a problem working on the 407...however..that mast retork...sorry for the spellingl...I always wanted to be an ingenner...now I are one...retork just plane sucks...and they keep changing the procedure...cause they can't seem to agree on how to do it...tiedowns on the 407 can be made up...hooks for each blade...very easy..similar to the 350's...no adjustments required for hmu...other than rigging likages...kick the tires...light the fire...computer does the rest...just watch where you set the throttle...our 350 never liked starting....tried several methods that where suggested by guys with bags od 350 time...just never was fun...could have been an fcu thing...I don't know....she would go...but as mentined you really had to work at it and watch the temps...both fly relatively the same..I find landing a 4 bladed machine easier than the 3 blades...as I was taught..on the 350...get her down..which is very tricky on a log pad with gaps in it...I'll take the 407..thanks

 

I agree with you 100%

 

 

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For longline work... 407. But the Astars aren't bad if you are always doping the rope on them. I find them annoying though when you hop in one from a normal bubble window.

 

For almost anything else... Astar. Although a 407 with a basket is pretty **** handy and freaky fast.

 

Tight confined areas might be a bit easier with the 407, but I just like being able to put my head out the window and look behind me.

 

I will still take the 205 over either of them though. Now that's a classy dumptruck to drive, and it sounds cooler to boot.

 

And if I was rich enough to just buy one to fly to work, it would probably be a Robinson...

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Mast tork is a pain...we have all the tools...one guy can do it...we had a tool made up to lock the head as you pull on it and we have a multipler...that not the problem...its the frigging procedure....and getting the hat off...the frahm off...that thing is a pain in the but...I love lifting that thing off and you never just do it once...I have had to retork this thing as many as 4 time to get it NOT to move...with all the flying inbetween it took almost a month to finally say yah shes done...and then don't forget to seal that puppy so you can scrape it all off in 12 months to do it again...and don't start with the 12 month fuel tank inspections...plain rediculise...other than that she is great... :rolleyes:

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Mast tork is a pain...we have all the tools...one guy can do it...we had a tool made up to lock the head as you pull on it and we have a multipler...that not the problem...its the frigging procedure....and getting the hat off...the frahm off...that thing is a pain in the but...I love lifting that thing off and you never just do it once...I have had to retork this thing as many as 4 time to get it NOT to move...with all the flying inbetween it took almost a month to finally say yah shes done...and then don't forget to seal that puppy so you can scrape it all off in 12 months to do it again...and don't start with the 12 month fuel tank inspections...plain rediculise...other than that she is great... :rolleyes:

 

If you hate taking the frahm off, why not leave it off? That puts another 50lbs in the tank or on the hook. Also are you using thixogrease on your cones and the 750-800 ft/lbs torque? I've never had to re-do a retorque more than once since TB 407-05-66. And honestly is looking in the fuel cell once a year really that bad? I know I've cleaned a lot of crud out of the check valves and the fuel cell, and with all the drum refueling that goes on in the bush i'd hate to see how much would accumulate if it was left for much longer.

just my 2 cents

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