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shakey

Slow Year?

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'shakey'...first of all I'm not interested in a p****ing match with you or anybody else here!

 

Certainly I do understand your point of view, but bashing on foreign pilots is starting at the wrong end! It's the system in Canada that needs re-thinking! Regulations and some very pre-historic customer requirements need to be updated and companies have to come up with some ideas of how to bring Canadian low time pilots on line. The company I'm currently working for is doing exactly that. Guess how many foreign low timers we have!? Yep that's right...NONE! And I totally agree with that! I don't know any company in Western Canada, who would prefer a foreign low time pilot over a Canadian. Do you? How many foreign 100 hour pilots, flying a 206 or R44, do you really know? There can't be that many, because if they are not qualified they won't get a positive labour market opinion from HRSDC and without that...no Visa.

 

Why is Airborne Energy still advertising to hire foreign pilots to fly R22's and R44's? Can't they hire Canadian low time pilots for the work in the oilfield?

 

Paved and plowed roads?! You can't be serious and you sure enough haven't travelled much either!? We are clearly talking about pilots from Australia, New Zealand and Europe and not Pakistan or Botswana, right? I have been to most of those places and last time I visited, most of the roads were in a pretty good shape! Probably better than here anyway! And "No"...I don't regret that I left my country and "no" I don't think things are much better there than here in general or when it comes to rotary wing aviation! Otherwise I wouldn't be here!

 

Canadians getting their first break overseas!? How many pilots do you really know, who have tried? But your point is still valid and a very good one! Getting a license in some of those countries is certainly harder than it is in Canada or the USA, but who's to blame for that? Certainly not the hard working foreign pilots here in Canada!!! Btw, most of those people were able to obtain such a license before they come to Canada! And kicking them out, when things are "slow" ( according to you) won't solve any of YOUR problems either!

 

Well Frank thanks for your concerns but I am doing fine in this industry. I do have several friends who are not doing so well. I also don't recall saying to kick any foriegn pilots just to maybe get some of our own pilots going in lieu of hiring foriegn pilots.

 

As far as the comment kicking Chinese and East Indians out or anyone who doesn't look like me. Thats about as childish of a comment I've heard on this forum. If all Canadians looked like me it would be one sad country to try to find a date.

 

I do know a European 100hr pilot who got a Visa as a pilot to come work in Canada and your right it is a goverment problem not the guys problem. Its also not the same guys problem that his parents have deep pockets and he can work for less or nothing. Is it fair to Canadian kids probably not but you might have a different take on that.

 

As far as whining is concerned some may think I am and thats fine. I am also aware that this is a global industry.

 

As far as upgrading your skills Bob good point. Just out of curiousity how many of your upgrades did you pay for and how many did former employers pay for? I'm all about upgrading just can't afford it.

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As far as upgrading your skills Bob good point. Just out of curiousity how many of your upgrades did you pay for and how many did former employers pay for? I'm all about upgrading just can't afford it.

 

Well shakey, by the time I went to work for crane, I had all the requirements out of my own pocket.....granted, it was spread over time.

When I started in this industry, there was no requirement to have a "mountain course" or vertical reference training.....heck, there was not flight duty limitations either :blink: .

Upgrading ones skills does come with time.......if you have demonstrarted good work ethic, loyalty, and common sense with a company, that goes a long way with them contributing also.

 

Believe me, I am 100% pro canadian........but it is not as simple as that for the industry. That is one of the reasons why I became involved with HEPAC.....we are working hard, to come up with funding (federal) to help with training and upgrading flight crews (canadian) for better chances of employment.

 

Yes, it is an uphill battle, but in time, it will help.

 

There are companies still looking hard for qualified people.....I guess it's a matter what type of work they are looking for.....or expecting!

 

If I came across a bit sarcastic, sorry for that......I gues my wife "ragging" on me over the "honeydo" list, got me a bit edgey :shock: .

 

Bob

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First of all thank you for inviting me to respond to a subject very close to my heart. Secondly, thank you for making me feel very welcome in Canada when I immigrated 10 months ago. Why? because I had done almost all that I wanted to in commercial aviation in UK and was looking for a new range of experiences, some of which I have had plenty of in the first few months!

 

I work for Airborne and they have sponsored me through the highly developed beauracratic system that is Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Please do not get me started on that.

 

Why me? Because the post I filled lay vacant for around 18 months. Why, because there were no Canadians with the experience, qualifications or desire to do it.

 

We pride ourselves at Airborne for starting the careers of hundreds of Canadian pilots. We DO NOT EMPLOY FOREIGNERS to fly our R44 and R22 aircraft. That would be illegal as I have around 50 to 100 resumes from fleshly minted CPLs so I could not get a work permit for a foreigner to do that. Where there is a massive gap is in middle experience. We cannot seem to find any Canadians with 1500 hours, which is the minimum required to fly for many of our Oil and Gas customers. This is where the foreigners are filling the gaps, and doing a good job they are.

 

So where do the Canadians go? I guess they get their hours then go overseas to earn big bucks which is then swallowed up by the horrendous cost of living in some places.

 

What to do about low-timers. Ladies and Gentlemen, there are too many of you for the number of jobs. Despite what they say in flight school, vacancies are few and far between. We only take on up to five per year and not all of them end up in flying jobs. Do your research before committing so much of your own money. Tell me, would you open a Mom and Pop coffee shop between Starbucks and Second Cup, opposite Tim Hortons ??

 

Any Canadians out there with 1500 hours, please send me your resume. I am turning down work for a lack of pilots and aircraft.

 

Apologies to all, I tried to reply but my post got set up as a new topic.

 

Thanks Helilog56, perhaps HEPAC would also do well to challenge the Oil and Gas Industry to justify the need for 1500 hours to fly diamonds and squares?

 

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Apologies to all, I tried to reply but my post got set up as a new topic.

 

Thanks Helilog56, perhaps HEPAC would also do well to challenge the Oil and Gas Industry to justify the need for 1500 hours to fly diamonds and squares?

I too have been dismayed by the influx of foreign pilots into the Canadian job market, not due to prejudice but because every job that they take over is forever gone for a canadian pilot who has paid big bucks for his training and can't get started. Our company has hired a few pilots from eastern Europe and New Zealand. All of them have been good pilots and good people. The problem is not necesarily with the employers but with the system. The clients have been led to insist on unrealistic minimum pilot experience requirements by some aviation "safety" companies and this has slammed the door on many of our homegrown pilots. The employers and Hepac, the clients and others have got to get together to come up with some acceptable way for lowtimers to get into commercial flying. A lot of jobs in the oil patch are about as easy as it gets and should be safe for a 100 hour pilot to do. Us old timers all got flying with 100 hours under our belts and we all made it. What exactly are the accident rates for pilots below and above 500, 1000, and 1500 hours? Is there any merit to the 1500 hour requirement?

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I fly for an oil company as required, that has a set minimun for pilots. The things I do are very easy, and on the surface it seems that anyone can and should be doing it. The issue gets clearer when you talk with them about it though. They get comfortable with the daily routine and no one gets particularily wound up, and then suddenly there are a few accidents, and their expectancy goes way up again. Not because we have an issue, but they are suddenly very comfortable with an older experienced pilot. I've actually had it said to me with relief when I flew some new people "Oh, Good!

An old guy!" I kid you not. (Unfortunately, those that crashed were new young pilots) In my opinion, at 2000hrs, you are what you are going to be, and the rest of the time is just filler. From an OPs Managers point of view, he has to give the client what THEY want or else they'll go next door.

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It has been commented on that Canadian Immigration are issuing visas to people for pilot specific work. Unless the pilot has a skill that no other Canadian or resident has, only then will a visa be granted.

What happens in most cases with pilots is that they come over on a Working Holiday Visa valid for a year. They find a job and then if the company likes them, when the visa expires, the company can ask for the visa to be extended for an other year.

At the same time the same number of holiday visas are issued to canadians to go to that country and work. So say while 10,000 visas are issued to the brits, 10,000 are issued to the canuks to go there. A fair program I say. I came to Canada on that program, found a job and then worked hard (and not for free or cheap). The company sposered me for an other 2 years while my residency went through, and now I am a permanent resident.

You could always look at the other extreme, in that if us Johnny Foreigners weren't here some companies may not have survived with the lack of pilots and then there would fewer companies for the low time guys to get a start with. :punk:

 

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here is a list of known companies that hire foreign pilots...I want to know if they are on your list.

 

Mustang

GSH

Wildcat

Baileys

Quest

Canadian Air Crane

Tasman

VIH

AES

Guardian

Prism

 

 

All very decent companies listed above.

 

I don't know what your definition of decent is, but there's a few employers on your list that have piss-poor reputations.

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While at Delta Helicopters I had the pleasure of working with a couple of Russian pilots. These guys had credentials and experience up the yinyang, but because they were new to Canada and Canadian bush flying they were pretty much back to square two. While passing through the US they'd converted their licenses: to unlimited ATPLs! But they couldn't get legal work there...

 

One of many funny stories: The jetbox was the smallest helicopter either of them had ever flown. They'd done their training on twins the size of 212s!

 

These guys had the most awesome attitudes! They were quick to help another pilot, grab the broom, keep their machines clean, tidy the crewhouse. (And OMG, you should'a seen them drink! Tumblers of vodka going down like water!!)

 

All in all, excellent additions to our workforce. I would gladly have either of these pros as a colleague or boss, any time.

 

Let's not use the same brush to paint everyone from somewhere else. Individual merit has to count for something.

 

Cheers,

 

D!ck

 

 

Absolutely, Dimit, I couldn't agree more regarding the Ruskies. Both were great guys to work with, and again, you are right, they both had awesome attitudes. Where can we find guys that are equally qualified locally? I'll bet there are few Canadian or even American pilots with the training and depth of experience those two came here with. I think Delta scored a real coup to get both of them. Air Crane, Helifor or VIH Logging will be interested in these guys.

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It has been commented on that Canadian Immigration are issuing visas to people for pilot specific work. Unless the pilot has a skill that no other Canadian or resident has, only then will a visa be granted.

What happens in most cases with pilots is that they come over on a Working Holiday Visa valid for a year. They find a job and then if the company likes them, when the visa expires, the company can ask for the visa to be extended for an other year.

At the same time the same number of holiday visas are issued to canadians to go to that country and work. So say while 10,000 visas are issued to the brits, 10,000 are issued to the canuks to go there. A fair program I say. I came to Canada on that program, found a job and then worked hard (and not for free or cheap). The company sposered me for an other 2 years while my residency went through, and now I am a permanent resident.

You could always look at the other extreme, in that if us Johnny Foreigners weren't here some companies may not have survived with the lack of pilots and then there would fewer companies for the low time guys to get a start with. :punk:

 

There's a small nuance that needs to be mentioned about these working holiday visas:

 

It's not quite as well balanced as you say, and this is our own government's fault. Whereas a person coming to Canada on one of these visas can work in any job he/she choses for the entire year, and can then even get it extended for another year, a Canadian going to most of these countries with so-called "reciprocal" agreements, will be either limited in the fields they can work in or the maximum duration of that employement. For example, a Canadian going to Australia on one of these visas can work at most 90 days for any single employer during their stay.

 

So I ask you, is this really fair ?

 

These working holiday visas are the way most foreign low-timers get jobs in Canada. I have nothing against these folks, mind you. I haven't met many foreign pilots who were a$$holes. The problem is with our country's overly open immigration laws that make it that much harder for the new guys 'n' gals to get going.

 

Experienced pilots (1000hrs+) are another story all together. I would bet there are more Canadian experienced pilots working outside of Canada than most other countries by proportion. I have no problem with them working here...

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