Group 4 Ifr Conversion

[R22Captain]

quick question

doing a group 1 to 4 instrument conversion.

 

have to do 5 hours heli.

can the flight test be done on a sim?

[Skidz]

quick question

doing a group 1 to 4 instrument conversion.

 

have to do 5 hours heli.

can the flight test be done on a sim?

 

 

Nope. Your check ride is done with a TC examiner. Your PPC can be done in a sim though...

[donnybrook]

© Skill

 

An applicant shall successfully complete:

(amended 1999/03/01; previous version)

 

(i) a flight test in accordance with the Flight Test Standards - Instrument Rating (TP 9939E),

(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

 

(ii) a Pilot Proficiency Check (PPC) for operations under IFR in accordance with Part VI or Part VII, as applicable, or

(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)

 

(iii) an applicant who successfully completes a Line Operational Evaluation (LOE) from an approved Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) is considered to have met the Part VI or Part VII pilot proficiency check.

(amended 2005/12/01; no previous version)

 

 

if you can't do your ride for the ifr in a sim, but you can do your ppc ride in a sim (for certain applications), and a ppc counts as an ifr ride for transport canada, why do you have to do a ride with a tc inspector in an aircraft?

[R22Captain]

ya that's what we've been trying to wrap our heads around. Seems silly I have to do my ifr ride in an aircraft....then in 2 weeks go do my ppc in a sim

[Winnie]

ya that's what we've been trying to wrap our heads around. Seems silly I have to do my ifr ride in an aircraft....then in 2 weeks go do my ppc in a sim

 

I am unsure...

 

I woud think that a full motion Simulator, (catII or III is it?), (I should know, but I'm just getting back into this), would be ok.

 

However, the ride has to be with a tc examiner, and the PPC only with an ACP...

 

Donnybrook, the PPC only counts a the reride, not the initial ride...

 

Cheers

w

[donnybrook]

doesn't say anything in there about a re-ride. i pulled that from the CARS requirements for the instrument rating, not the renewal. transport canada can do ppc rides too i believe.....

[R22Captain]

found this

 

Quote:

Synthetic Flight Training Equipment

 

General

 

1. Where a flight test is conducted in a full flight simulator or a flight training device, the examiner must either be trained in the use of the device or must monitor the candidate’s performance while an individual, that has been trained, operates the device in accordance with an agreed-upon script.

 

 

2. According to CAR 606.03, any synthetic flight training equipment used for pilot checking or testing, pursuant to Part IV of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, shall have a certificate issued by Transport Canada;

 

 

3. A flight training device (FTD) is acceptable for instrument rating renewal flight tests provided that the conditions outlined below are met.

 

Full Flight Simulator (FFS)

 

A full-flight simulator used for the Instrument Rating flight test shall be a Level A or higher FFS approved in accordance with the Aeroplane and Rotorcraft Simulator Manual (TP9685). The pilot seats will only be occupied by the required crewmembers. In the case of a single-pilot aeroplane, that would be the candidate only.

 

Flight Training Device (FTD) (Instrument Rating Renewals only)

 

A FTD used for an Instrument Rating renewal flight test shall be a minimum level 2 FTD approved in accordance with the Aeroplane and Rotorcraft Simulator Manual (TP9685) with the following enhancements:

 

1. An enclosed cockpit environment, which will have actuation of controls and switches that replicate those in the aeroplane. May be representative of a single set of aeroplanes;

 

 

2. Crew seats shall have sufficient adjustments to allow the occupant to achieve the design eye reference position appropriate to the aeroplane and for the visual system to be installed to align with that eye position;

 

 

3. A generic ground handling model that enables representative flare and touch down effects to be produced by the sound and visual systems;

 

 

4. Installed systems must simulate the applicable aeroplane system operation. Systems shall be operative to the extent that it shall be possible to perform all normal, abnormal and emergency operations as may be appropriate for the aeroplane during the flight test. Flight and navigation controls, displays and instrumentation must be as set out in CAR 605.18 for IFR operations;

 

 

5. The instructor’s station must have the capability to introduce failures on all required systems. Once activated, proper system operation must result from system management by the crew member and not require any further input from the instructor’s controls;

 

 

6. Control forces and control travels which respond in the same manner under the same flight conditions as in the aeroplane or set of aeroplanes being simulated;

 

 

7. Aerodynamic modeling shall reflect a rolling movement due to yawing;

 

 

8. Communication equipment (intercom and air/ground) corresponding to that installed in the replicated aeroplane or set of aeroplanes;

 

 

9. Significant cockpit sounds, responding to pilot actions, that correspond to the aeroplane or set of aeroplanes being simulated;

 

 

10. A visual system (night/dusk or day), that provides an out-of-the-cockpit view, providing cross-cockpit viewing for the pilot occupying the left seat of a minimum field of view of 150° horizontally and 40° vertically, unless restricted by the type of aeroplane, including adjustable cloud base and visibility; and

 

 

11. The visual system need not be collimated. The responses of the visual system and the flight deck instruments to control inputs shall be closely coupled to provide the necessary cues.

[donnybrook]

r22 capt,

 

did you get an official answer yet?

[R22Captain]

nope not yet....our ACP is looking into it.

 

should have an answer by friday. He had said some TC guys will do it but others frown on it.

 

My problem is it will be on a 212 sim. Nothing like throwing eng out's and gov failiure's into an initial ride!

[R22Captain]

For anyone interested you can do you initial ride in a full motion sim.

 

I ended up doing mine in an aircraft, but we had another pilot do his initial on the sim.