Interesting Discussion

[Guest deemac]

There is a concept that is being kicked around our industry by a few regarding compensation packages for pilots. The goal of the concept is to save a company money while trying to put more money in the pocket of the pilot. Neither I nor Justhelicopters.com is the author of this concept, nor are we interested in publicly passing judgment on the concept. We have only been asked to remain neutral and use this Forum as a means of discussion and to try and get the real reactions and opinions of helicopter pilots on whether or not this type of concept would appeal to you as a pilot.

 

HERE IS THE QUESTION:

 

Would you work as a contract pilot instead of as an employee if,

 

1. you had a one year written contract that is negotiated and renewable if your original obligations are fulfilled and the company had the position available,

 

2. you could not be replaced with a pilot with less experience than when you began or at less money than when you began and you are guaranteed a raise each year which is added to your base for any replacement,

 

3. you would begin with 20% more income with no benefits instead of an employee with benefits, and would be responsible for your own insurance and retirement,

 

4. you would know that you could easily be terminated for a flagrant breach of this contract and also, you would know that you are in charge of your actions and responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft,

 

5. all disputes would be settled by arbitration,

 

6. you would have an opportunity to work extra at a comparable position for extra money provided time and duty permitted?

 

HERE ARE THE RULES FOR DISCUSSION:

 

·IN THE BEGINNING OF YOUR RESPONSE….Please give an answer YES or NO as to whether or not this type of plan would be of interest to you BASED ONLY ON THE INFORMATION PRESENTED. (Not what if’s). QUESTIONS WILL NOT BE ANSWERED. The Party is only interested in the pilots initial reactions and opinions of the plan and/or suggestions that would entice a pilot to work as a contract pilot or not.

 

·After answering YES or NO, feel free to explain your position (or not).

 

·Feel free to openly express your opinion or perspective positively or negatively regarding such a plan.

 

·Feel free to make suggestions that might make you more apt to accept such a plan.

 

·Feel free to make cause and effect analogies regarding the benefits and the negatives of such a plan.

 

·AND ABOVE ALL…..As a courtesy to me, please keep the discussion legitimate and above board. Do not take anything personal, this is merely for discussion. Posters that descend into name calling or rude behavior towards one another will have their post removed without warning.

 

Thanks,

Lyn

[HeloTeacher]

NO

 

I've actually just been through this in the real world (off the net).

 

Many of those benefits I would lose; disability, life insurance, pension, medical, etc, are things that are difficult and sometimes impossible for me to replace on my own. This is especially true trying to insure my self as a helicopter pilot working in the $hitholes I do.

 

I have no choice but to consider that my job may, and someday likely will, kill me. If there is a chance this can happen sooner rather than later I need to be assured that my wife and my children will be cared for and happy after I am gone.

 

No matter how big the difference in pay, it takes time to build up that pot of cash to replace the life insurance. RRSP contributions to replace a pension must be added. Don't forget the medical and dental plans. Probably we won't need the most expensive treatments, but quite possibly we will, I have already.

 

To each his own but I will continue to pursue employers that help me protect my family against the worst.

[sharkbait]

NO Repeat NO I say again NO.

 

Not in the market for any bridges or swampland in FLA either.

[skullcap]

No.

 

If you eliminated, 2,3,and 4 then yes. I agree with helo teach, insurance and benefits are worth much more then most pilots believe, as it is very hard to obtain.

 

If they want to replace me with a younger cheaper pilot and am proficient at my job then the employer is too stupid to work for. I have seen a 15,000 hour 206 pilot/engineer get his helicopter home with customer out of snow storm on mountain top when a minor mechanical malfunction occured. He may have saved their lives. Don't you think the company enjoyed having that employee around, YOU BET!!! Would you want that pilot replaced with someone earning 500 a month less, this is a joke.

 

 

Easily terminated for breach of contract and that you are responsible for your actions. WOW, can I come and work on your planet now. Guess what, this is already the case, if I screw up there is a good chance I get dead and if I live then I whole bunch of lawyers make a wack of money. The breach of contract thing, sounds ominous and threatful, maybe you could instil a probation period instead, otherwise is just idle big company threat tactic. Could the pilot sue the company for breach of contract for future pay for the rest of his life if asked to fly a/c overgross, or with a snag he didnt' want to fly with.

 

As I mentioned earlier this is either a joke, something to get our bloodpressure up or some beancounter's idea of how to run a professional helicopter company.

 

sc

[Blackmac]

Verrrrryyyyy interesting, but stupid.

 

You have the nerve to post something as idiotic as that statement.

 

We here, at present, are trying to better the lot of the air crews, not lessen them.

 

A CONTRACT IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON BACKING IT. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO PROVIDE THE LEGAL OPINIONS AS TO THE VALIDIDITY OF AN ONGOING CONTRACT IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

 

For your information I am an ex-contracting officer that is familiar with contracting procedures both in Canada and the US.

 

Your question should be sent to HAI and check their response.

 

IF YOU HAVN'T FIGURED IT OUT THE PROBLEM IS THE OPERATOR'S TRYING TO MAXIMIZE THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT AT THE BEHEST OF THE AIR CREWS.

 

TRY EDUCATING THE END USER OF THE COST OF OPERATING HELICOPTERS.

[Kyle]

My question is, Lyn, how are you going to remove posts?

[BaldEagle]

The goal of the concept is to save a company money while trying to put more money in the pocket of the pilot.

 

 

:blur: :shock: :blur: :shock: :blur:

How generous of you !!!

:down: :down:

 

:rant: :rant:

[spinwing]

NO

 

:angry:

 

There did I say that loudly enough. Where is the smiley for "one-way street" ?

 

I won´t dignify the post with any further reply.

[spinwing]

On second thought, now that I have calmed down somewhat.

 

With a management philosophy like this you have just got to be begging for your staff to form a union. Yes the "U" word.

 

Some of your points!!!

 

1. "and the company had the position available". And if a position was not available; owner presumes that there will be a quiet fire season or a contract was lost; the pilot with the big paycheck or the newbie at the bottom. Let´s face it anyone whose nose isn´t pluged in where the sun don´t shine, a good stick or not, is gone.

 

Since our industry is highly seasonal, when will contracts be renewwd ? At the end of the season, which implies people will be hired at the end of the season or at the beginning of the season. If you contract is not renewed at the beginning of the season, you may have seen a bunch of opporunities fly by.

 

Would there be a no lay-off clause? I doubt it. "So sue me."

 

2. Yeah, right. Sue me.

 

3. Where did you get that number. Go talk to a human resources consultant. The standard is in the 30 - 33.3 % and that is is industries where life insurance and loss of licence insurance are not issues. Certainly as the General Manager of a metal fabricating company my costs were closer to 40 %. In Ontario, you would also be escaping the employers payroll tax for hospitalisation.

 

If you persist with this line, you can almost guarantee a union / association / guild or whatever as people look for affordable life, disability, loss of licence insurance. Just in case you haven´t been in the real world lately, where would one get appropriate individual insurance coverage within your ludicrous 20 % number.

 

4. This is the case now anyway. Read the last sentence in 1. above.

 

5. Who is going to pay for arbitration? How long will it take? What happens in the meanwhile? If you are vindicated after 2 months off in the summer, what happens to the flight pay that you would have earned. Give me a wrongful dissmissal lawyer every time.

 

6. This is another mealy mouthed way of saying that you will sweep the hangar on days off.

 

I guess the answer is still NO. :down:

 

Or as the Brits say this has to be a windup.

[N.O.E.]

Hey: do you wear a visor, because this has a french ring to it. NO NO But **** No, end of discussion.