Cheap A/c For Hire

[snark]

Forgive me for my ignorance but, it is the same isnt it? The bottom line is its undercutting or a way to keep machines flying ! Yes/No I dont nessicarily agree with either, I however disagree with people complaining about others undercutting when there just as guilty :down: By the way wheres Snark? maybe consulting with Dashy I gotta get down to Walmart

 

I'm not an owner or an operator, and I'm not sure about you, but if I had a customer come and say I'll give you 900- 1800 hrs per machine per year of flying if you discount an LR to a jetranger rate.....I'd be putting my 600,000 machines out to make 900,000 to 1.8 mill per machine per year and laughing my aas off to the bank. I don't think as an operator or owner I would take a 3.5 million machine and put it out for 350,000 in challenging conditions when it costs me at least 325,000 to do the contract. I'm sorry there is a differance.

[212dude]

So...

 

I suppose that everyone complaining about these competetive operators also complain when Air Canada or Westjet have a seat sale and drop their prices.

 

I also assume that they complain when GM, Ford and Chrysler reduce their auto prices when dealers have carlots overflowing with inventory, or offer cashback incentives and reduced financing costs to move product.

 

... marketing is something that I don't know much about, I am just a helicopter driver.

 

What I do know, is that these operators are keeping their employees and machines working. If they can continue to run their business, all the power to them, and for those others, welcome to the capitalist free-market economy.

 

If you cannot compete, then trim your overhead, lay-off your staff, renegotiate financing and creditors... but do not expect your competion to fix prices with you.

 

And by-the-way, I work contract for one of these "lowball" operators and have never been short changed on my rate and minimums. They pay me what I want.

[scottyp1973]

i undercut someone in my home town because i needed to sell a bike that a lot of other people also had for sale. i sold mine. but heres the kicker, i did not sell it for less than its worth, i will not go broke if i sold more of the same all year long, i did not piss off everyone else that are selling the same bikes. i did not make a industry wide customer think that everyone should be able to get a bike for that cheap or that all these other bike sellers are making hand over fist money at those prices. haha, lol did i write bikes? i meant cars....... no i meant helicopters for charter. awe fuggit lets all go backwards a couple steps and see who survives..... wait a minute, thats what were talking about here. these guys are going backwards! ............hey everybody i figured it out! if we all go backwards we can all go broke im a friggin genious! thank-you thank-you

[ame206350]

And by-the-way, I work contract for one of these "lowball" operators...

 

Shocker :shock:

 

See Scottyp's post above to gain some insight.

[212dude]

Shocker :shock:

 

See Scottyp's post above to gain some insight.

 

 

And what exactly was he implying?

 

... that the canadian helicopter industry should price-fix? I think their are laws against that!

 

If a company is willing to sell their product for a certain price, whether it is high or low is their business. If those companies survive or not... it is their business.

 

I was offered a contract with another operator a month ago, and they were not willing to pay my rate... I graciously declined their offer of employment. There are plenty of pilots willing to work for less also. It is all a matter of economics.

 

 

 

 

[212dude]

[ame206350]

And what exactly was he implying?

 

... that the canadian helicopter industry should price-fix? I think their are laws against that!

 

If a company is willing to sell their product for a certain price, whether it is high or low is their business. If those companies survive or not... it is their business.

 

I was offered a contract with another operator a month ago, and they were not willing to pay my rate... I graciously declined their offer of employment. There are plenty of pilots willing to work for less also. It is all a matter of economics.

 

It not about "price fixing" it's about "sewering" your rates and the effect it has on industry-wide clients and then (inevitably) the industry as a whole - of which you and I appear to be a part. Most people get it. Notice that Bighorn and Gemini were both in the same ballpark? Was that "price fixing"? I don't think you understand what price fixing really is.

 

I picked out the main part of Scottyp's point that you had such a hard time figuring out.

 

"i did not make a industry wide customer think that everyone should be able to get a bike for that cheap or that all these other bike sellers are making hand over fist money at those prices" - scottyp

 

As far as these companies going out of business - I hope it happens. I do understand that you are getting paid - which (as a matter of survival) is the most important thing. The problem being that most of these low-ball companies have to save money somehow - that somehow might just shock you. It might be stuff you never see. It might also very well might be something that puts you at risk. Just think about that time-exed and paperwork-fudged turbine you could be sitting on.....it's pretty easy to do it. This isn't all wizards and sorcery talk. If you think these low-ball guys aren't cutting corners (if they aren't now - they will be shortly) you are dreaming. Look at the posts that mention stolen fuel....tip of the iceberg. It's a slippery slope and I think most people in the industry have some sense of this.

 

Fly safe.

[212dude]

Look at the posts that mention stolen fuel....tip of the iceberg. It's a slippery slope and I think most people in the industry have some sense of this.

 

Fly safe.

 

 

And now... what exactly are YOU implying?

 

I hope with libelous statements such as this that you have PROOF that anyone has behaved in this fashion. Hearsay and innuendo is not a valid defense.

 

Show me where anyone has been found guilty of your statement in a court of law, or even charged with the offense.

 

Until then stop slagging other operators for conducting business as they see fit.

[Freefall]

A bran new B3 at a jetranger rate...that sound fair. I don't think anyone is making any money at that rate someone is just trying to keep the creditors at bay or something. I dont know how you can call it simple economics its scrues everyone else over when customers get used to impossible rates.

[scottyp1973]

so someone needs to be convicted before fudging numbers really happened. alright, sure. i have not seen TO many components fail before their o/t schedule anyways, dont worry just strap yourself in and BOBs you uncle. the accident rate is at an all time low and you've got nothing to worry about.