Standard Configuration

[old dog]

Reading an old thread on page 50 or so i came upon a statement a pilot made that he would never fly in a machine that didn't have a standard set up with reference to the cyclic switches/buttons. We did have one 206 with a 205 grip (i was told) but it was changed out. Now all the machines have metal boxes on the side of the cyclic and extensions on the collective to accommodate switches.

 

When i worked as and apprentice engineer i got to rebuild a Bambi bucket that had been inadvertently dropped on a fire so i can appreciate the need for standardisation.

 

My question is: What is considered "standard configuration"?

 

Any comments are appreciated, thank you. L3driver.

 

It is whatever your current Chief Pilot says it is! :shock:

 

This subject drives me nuts - and dumb wiring/switch location has killed more than a few pilots.

[Guest jacdor]

Reading an old thread on page 50 or so i came upon a statement a pilot made that he would never fly in a machine that didn't have a standard set up with reference to the cyclic switches/buttons. We did have one 206 with a 205 grip (i was told) but it was changed out. Now all the machines have metal boxes on the side of the cyclic and extensions on the collective to accommodate switches.

 

When i worked as and apprentice engineer i got to rebuild a Bambi bucket that had been inadvertently dropped on a fire so i can appreciate the need for standardisation.

 

My question is: What is considered "standard configuration"?

 

Any comments are appreciated, thank you. L3driver.

Taken from the HAC website, copied and pasted here.

 

 

Volume 3, Edition 10 Friday, November 10, 2006

 

 

 

Belly Hook Switch Position

 

(HAC Recommended practice)

 

 

 

Subsequent to a fatal Bell 204 accident a BC Coroner’s Judgment of Inquiry recommended that the electric cargo release switch position be standardized as the bottom switch on the cyclic. Having thoroughly discussed the advisability and feasibility of standardizing the location of the electric hook release, members of the HAC Safety Committee concluded that an industry wide solution was not feasible due to the variety of manufacturer configurations, customer equipment requirements, operator preferences, and the absence of authority to impose such a requirement.

 

 

 

However, it was agreed that notwithstanding HAC’s inability to require compliance, the Association should encourage its members to adhere to use Systemic Safety Management Principles to address the risk of unintentional release of under slung cargo or inappropriate emergency response due to inconsistent switch configurations.

 

 

 

The Association therefore suggests that helicopter operators mitigate the risks of accidental discharge and inappropriate emergency response by standardizing cyclic switch configurations across their own fleet (as much as possible) with the bottom/lowest switch on the cyclic being reserved to release the belly hook.

 

 

 

[Elvis]

Getting Bell, Eurocopter, MD & Sikorsky to make a common cyclic switch position is unlikely to happen

[Freefall]

My last employer had mostly 205 cyclic grips on the jetrangers which was nice. Unfortunetly some of them had the jetranger cyclic with the little box on the bottom. I dont like that style becuase if you have winter gear on and you are landing offlevel the little box hits your leg and causes you to run out of cyclic prematurely.

[WTF_was_that]

A-star grips are the best. All important switch's can have guards or ability to arm/disarm... Bicycle grip manual release. Easy to reach, use

 

Bell's the Worst design EVER. If you haven't dropped something in a Bell........... you will.

[rotorheadrob]

I agree with wtf.

 

[Skids Up]

So who gets to "set the standard"?

 

• Us, because we have more machines that you do?
• Us, because we have more / less experienced people?
• You, because you have more machines?
• You, because you have more / less experienced people?
• You because you don't like the 206 grip?
• You because you don't like the 205 grip?
• Us, because we had a friend that said he knew someone who had never dropped a load with the 206 grip?
• You because you know someone who only drops loads using the 206 grip?

 

I'm thinking that it will be pretty easy to arrive at a solution, with just a bit more discussion... :lol:

 

All kidding aside..

 

We use a 205 grip that requires two buttons to be pushed at the same time. Makes it harder to "accidentally" hit the wrong one...

 

Remote hook is still just one, on the collective.

[Elvis]

We use a 205 grip that requires two buttons to be pushed at the same time. Makes it harder to "accidentally" hit the wrong one...

 

The last 205 I was with only needed 1 button, but that was 28 years ago. Has there been a change?

[old dog]

So who gets to "set the standard"?

 

• Us, because we have more machines that you do?
• Us, because we have more / less experienced people?
• You, because you have more machines?
• You, because you have more / less experienced people?
• You because you don't like the 206 grip?
• You because you don't like the 205 grip?
• Us, because we had a friend that said he knew someone who had never dropped a load with the 206 grip?
• You because you know someone who only drops loads using the 206 grip?

 

I'm thinking that it will be pretty easy to arrive at a solution, with just a bit more discussion... :lol:

 

All kidding aside..

 

We use a 205 grip that requires two buttons to be pushed at the same time. Makes it harder to "accidentally" hit the wrong one...

 

Remote hook is still just one, on the collective.

 

Just my opninion, but I would not fly an a/c with this setup.

 

If you have an emergency, of any kind, you will want to get rid of everything below you - real quick. And I don't need the job to be made more complicated at this critical time.

 

My personal favorite setup to leave the belly hook as one button on the cyclic (your, "We have a problem Houston", button) and it is always your RIGHT hand. And it operates ONLY the belly hook.

 

Then install a box on the collective with all the working buttons, ie longline, drip torch, bucket, etc. These are your working buttons, and it is always your LEFT hand.

 

So, all you need to remember is that when things are going normally, use your LEFT hand, and if you have a emergency use your RIGHT hand.

 

But then, I'm Irish, so I need to keeep it simple.

 

[Zazu]

I'm with Ole Dog on this...keep it simple. But as for the so-called "standard" there isn't one. The only standard that can exist would be from a company standpoint. ie get management to get a bunch of pilots around an airframe and talk it out. THEN, after 10 or so hours of comparing who's emergency was more important...hopefully come to a conclusion. THEN present the details of this rather complicated issue to the DOM whereby he will hopefully make it happen.

 

All jokes and sarcasm aside, this is a serious issue. The types of A/C in any given company negate any set industry standard. But I do believe that a company standard should be set.

 

That being said, I honestly believe that anybody flying an A-Star without the bicycle belly hook release is flirting with disaster! The 206, R44 should have some sort of equivalent as well. But as always it will take another accident before it comes to fruition.

 

In conclusion...keep it simple. GET your drivers together to hash it out and then if your company will pay for the changes, then make it part of your training.

 

Clear as Mud!??

 

Zazu