Hydraulics Off ?

[Skids Up]

My 2 cents say no. I have done it and did do it to keep controls from moving while out of the machine. Never had a problem UNTIL I came across a jet box that when they were turned off the servos would creep a bit on their own.

 

After that I would never use the hyd's to hold the controls - tighten the frictions...

 

Far as I know there is no problem with the Hyd's being off as far as the system itself is concerned.

 

 

[Wiggins]

Am I missing something here. I could understand if a storm was moving in, nightfall was approaching or Godzilla and Mothra where on the horizon but is leaving the A/C running with nobody at the controls ever a good idea. Let alone while you are dispensing flamable materials. This is a perfect example of what is taught in those boring human factors courses, fatique. Fueling is a time to stop the noise and have a brief rest period, eat a sandwich, jerk off whatever floats your boat. If you can only fly with enough fuel for short hops then you are already having a stressful day. Tell the customer your Jetranger will only lift 800lbs and your day will be so much easier. If you can only do the job with a thimble full of fuel then you're using the wrong machine. In the event the machine rolled over would you beat yourself around the head with the stand pipe then jump into the smoldering wreckage? There is a chance that the accident investigators and the insurance people might think you where at the controls. I would suggest that you take an engineer with you. He could then sit at the controls while you fueled the A/C.

[Phil Croucher]

Wiggins - you're not missing anything, but some customers might be. I've been run off a couple of jobs for not keeping running while refuelling with the controls unattended, which I still refuse to do - at least until I find a customer that will get me another licence or pay for any fines! To my mind there's something wrong if they can't stand a couple of minutes for rundown and startup, but there you are. As you say, it's a great opportunity for a break as well.

 

Having said that, I can see that there are some occasions, such as being in a VERY remote place with no support, where keeping the thing going might be acceptable if the battery is at all suspect, but I usually train the first aid guy instead to do hot refuelling! He's usually sat in his truck anyway.

 

BTW, it's very hard to tell some customers what your machine will or will not take! Some of them are real pocket experts with intelligence to match.

 

As for the hydraulics, my military training said to turn the hydraulics off if the controls are unattended, but I can see the argument for not doing so.

 

phil

[kjw57]

Without the frictions on there is nothing restraining the flight controls. With the hydraulics off the disc is still free to move ie: wind gusts,(from other helis) creeping servo's, even at gound idle which of course we'd be at if we were getting out. A couple of things to keep in mind if idlelling a 206 with the hydraulics off, don't forget to turn them back on before you wind it up and go flying and don't allow the collective to "drop" as it can rise when idlelling without the hydraulics or friction on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[swede]

Im sorry.. Am I missing something...

 

I would suggest that you take an engineer with you. He could then sit at the controls while you fueled the A/C.

If you have an engineer with you, why would he sit at the controls while you fuel the A/C. Isn't the pilot supposed to be the one at the controls.

Just my two cents.

Swede

[happyfeet]

Well, if you are out west, roll back the throttle, tighten down the frictions and fuel er up! Try it in Ontario or most places east or the rockies and get a severe pee pee slap.

 

HF

[Freefall]

There are plenty of topics about hot fueling and getting out of the machine. That isnt what hes asking here.

 

From what I've learned, shutting off the hydraulics allows the servos to move from forces placed upon them like wind or rotorwash. With the hydraulics on, the servos can only move from movements in the controls. They block any reverse forces placed on them. As long as your frictions are decent, I dont see any reason to shut off the hydraulics.

 

There was a pilot in a 407 who met his end a couple years ago in the states when he got out to help his customers unload their bags when he dropped them off at an airport helipad. They found the hydraulics switch in the off position.

[Torque Split]

Not exactly on topic but the Bell Flight Manuals state that the pilot shall remain at the controls until the rotor blades have stopped.

[skullcap]

Astar= bad juju with switch off, if collective lock fails or comes off, the collective rises, not a biggy unless at flight rpm then she goes up,,,and with no hydraulics....

But can use off switch to center cyclic if unsure where that sweet spot is,,,but be careful they sometimes go elsewhere,,,

 

Lama= collective goes to bottom stop,,,no biggy. The best frictions have used, period.

 

Jetbox, as above posts,,but a little trick to keep the machine from making slight jump when turning on hydraulics is to push collective all the way down then back up a tad,,,thank you Chris Reynolds for that tip. Don't overtighten frictions, or they become stripped and engineer has meltdown(again)

 

Bell mediums,,,,use force trim, friction and locks,,,,why bother with hydraulic switch?

 

Twinstar, don't think is possible to turn off all hydrualics.

 

 

I don't hot fuel,,engineer or trained person does.

 

Is a very good artical in Vortex awhile back about a pilot getting killed by blade,,,,,very sad tale,,,,but is worth the read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wiggins]

Im sorry.. Am I missing something...

 

 

If you have an engineer with you, why would he sit at the controls while you fuel the A/C. Isn't the pilot supposed to be the one at the controls.

Just my two cents.

Swede

Sorry about that Swede. That is what is called a joke. Perhaps next time I post something I will highlight any potential humour in red.