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Hydraulics Off ?

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L3 - I hear you, but I didn't say I wouldn't hot refuel, just that I wouldn't do it with the controls unattended, hence training the first aid guy (when you've got a sticky customer having an alternative up your sleeve is always a good move!) My problem is, "operational necessity" is too often confused confused with "customer necessity", and we let the tail wag the dog too much.


Freefall - thanks for your post, you make a good point.



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Part of any companies Operating Certificate is a requirement to have an Operations Manual and I believe a Safety Management System or Risk Management System or a copy of the CDF Manual.


Any insurance company worth it's salt would have a copy of said manual.


If they have accepted the fact that you are doing "Hot Refueling" and written it into the policy, you are covered.


If not covered, have fun trying to collect, should there be a mishap.


Cheers, Don


PS: It should be a policy decision written in the OPS manual, not a crew decision.

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I had a G3B1 go to full left cyclic on me during hot fuelling with the hydraulics shut off and no friction set. This was in 1979 and have never used hydraulic switch for this purpose since.


Also if you don't need to mess with switches or buttons, especially in remote areas, leave them alone- I had a fuel shutoff valve on a JetRanger stop half open (or closed)- didn't know if where the valve was sitting, had to dismantle out in the bush and crank valve open manually to get home. Lucky it wasn't 40 below.

Ever had a 206 linear actuator fail? We used to threaten cutting off thumbs during training flights.



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At the companies where I have worked, Hot Fueling was/is allowed - but the procedure involves the machine being refueled by ground crew while the pilot remains at the controls of the 'Hot' machine. If and when something goes wrong during your time away from the controls - it will be your responsibility. I seriously doubt that any insurance company will pay up under those conditions. If your Ops department expects you to fuel a running machine, they should have no problem putting the procedure down on paper to authorize it. It seems to be far too easy for Desk-bound REMF's in this industry to create 'company policy' that has no basis in fact.


As for the customer rep - most will glady lead you to your own grave.


Just off of the top of my head - I can think of an Astar and a 205A-1 that went for flights by themselves while I was at the respective companies. The Astar was a writeoff and the 205 only needed a complete T/R drivetrain after carving up a fly-tank.


As for the original question - servos can creep/motor without hyd's on if there is movement of the pilot valve(no frictions/force trim on) or the valve is faulty.

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