Work Permit Freeze

[T tail]

Lots of guys moaning on here they can't get jobs...I'm sure they would have been the same ones moaning over the last two years when companies had machines sitting on the ground as they couldnt get enough pilots foreign or domestic. When the exploration was going ballistic in the North to do the work. How many of you are happy to move away from family and friends and live in a mosquito infested #### hole to get hours and make money?

Low hour guys coming in from offshore to take the work, don't blame them they are just making the most of a fantastic opportunity. Why don't you go and ask a chief pilot tomorrow why they where picked over you for that seat?? they are the ones giving away YOUR jobs...

 

 

And yes I agree, no one under 1000 hours should get a permit

[TooTall]

No, I'm just a Canadian, living and working in Canada with the hope that other Canadians can do the same without fear their jobs will be outsourced to overseas competition.

How can you find fault with that??

 

I have a friend he was a supervisor for a computer support having a big office here in Canada and they outsourced his job to India.

Do you know what he did?

 

He went out and found another job. It took some time but he got a job. Dont be so scared of this. It could be to the best.

 

My be its the industries way of weeding :punk:

[worldywings]

I think this should be a debate about the PROCESS, not pilots.

 

It is easier to get a work visa in Canada than even most third world nations.

 

The PROCESS is flawed and I am not too sure how anyone would argue that it isn't.

 

 

[shakey]

And there in lies a lot of the problem.

 

No one has a "Right" to a job just because he has a piece of paper in his pocket, and is a citizen of the (insert appropriate country here).

 

If he/she can earn the position, (see previous threads - work habits, value, etc.) then get at it and do a good job.

 

NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!

 

And if some flight school told you they did, then you are going to get screwed, again...

 

As I agree with alot of your post S.U I do disagree with this one. There are a lot of good Canadian kids who are being looked over because companies don't want to spend the time and money mentoring.

 

Its cheaper too grab some foreigner and throw them in the seat cause they have been herding cattle in the outback. If you are a citizen of a country it only makes sense that you should have some entitlement to employment over a non-citizen.

 

Should you have too prove yourself? Of course,how do you think the high time Canadian pilots got to where they are today. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot some of these other fellas (mostly foreigners or Canadians with loads of hours) may have a different opinion.

[shakey]

I have a friend he was a supervisor for a computer support having a big office here in Canada and they outsourced his job to India.

Do you know what he did?

 

He went out and found another job. It took some time but he got a job. Dont be so scared of this. It could be to the best.

 

My be its the industries way of weeding :punk:

 

Well my friend you can't put a fire out in the Okanagan from Bangladesh.

 

[scubasteve]

Why bring in Ex Pats to mentor and train our up and coming pilots?Wouldnt it be better and cheaper if we trained and mentor them with our Canadian pilots?

 

Why is it cheaper and better with Canadian pilots??

 

As I agree with alot of your post S.U I do disagree with this one. There are a lot of good Canadian kids who are being looked over because companies don't want to spend the time and money mentoring.

 

Its cheaper too grab some foreigner and throw them in the seat cause they have been herding cattle in the outback.

 

Seems like there is a conflict, as shakey, proves that it aint cheaper to train and mentor Canadian pilots. So there in lies the answer to all of this. Operators are all about money. If someone is legally able to work here, and they have more experience and seem good for the job, then the answer is gonna be very simple.

 

Its not that easy to to get a work permit - if foreigners don't get the work and travel visa then a company has to sponsor them. companies then have to be approved by the HRDC, which takes sometime. If approved, as the HRDC believes there is a need for the experienced pilots (which of course today there isnt due to slow down in the industry, which will also affect work permits being given out) then the company can sponsor the foreign pilot. The cost to the operator for all of this - $0!

 

Unahppyguy - you need to go to all operators and demand that they stop saving money and only hire Canadian pilots. Then spend more money and time on the low time pilots getting them to the hours they need in order to meet the insurance requirements for the contracts. Or one step better. Why dont you go to all the customers with those minimum hourly requirements and tell them to drop all their mins!! I mean, who the **** do they think they are for putting mins on contracts anyway! Its not like this work is dangerous, right?

 

Its all called economics - money drives and rules the world! When you realise that, you will move on from all of this and stop wasting time complaining. Sure its tough for the low time pilots. Its tough all over the world for low time pilots - but those that are the most resourceful end up making it work - those that dont - then I guess thats just how it goes. The fact is the world is more accessible to everyone now than it was in the past. Use every way you can to make the most of your own life and succeed. Complaining about how others got this and that is just tiring. Although, I find, that unfortunately in this industry, the complainers sometimes get further than the people who just work hard and go by un-noticed.

 

I firmly believe that if you take two people of equal skills and abilities, one Canadian and one foreign. 95% of the time the Canadian will be the one to get hired. However, dont forget, that if a company is gonna sponsor a foreign pilot, give them a type rating, then they have also tied that foreign pilot to working for them. If they hired the Canadian, whats to stop him up and leaving the next few weeks after getting his/her type rating and some experience and jumping the fence? The foreign pilot cannot jump over to another company - in this way the operator has just secured themselves an employee that cannot leave unless they leave the country! Which is unlikely to happen as quickly as a Canadian just going to another company. No one can say that they havent seen that happen. It goes on all the time - pilot gets type rating, has company relocate the family - 3 months later - "uh I quit, got something better. Thanks!"

[shakey]

So Scuba when you see an injustice in your country you just lie down and take it. Sounds typical to this industry.

 

I just hope the letters keep being sent to the MLA's and we'll see whose doing the whining in the end.

 

Times are slow and you've over stayed your welcome.

 

 

 

 

[worldywings]

 

Its not that easy to to get a work permit - if foreigners don't get the work and travel visa then a company has to sponsor them. companies then have to be approved by the HRDC, which takes sometime. If approved, as the HRDC believes there is a need for the experienced pilots (which of course today there isnt due to slow down in the industry, which will also affect work permits being given out) then the company can sponsor the foreign pilot. The cost to the operator for all of this - $0!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The point has been made time and again that pilots from certain areas easily obtain temporary working visas so yes...it is rather easy to get a work visa in Canada.

 

"The cost to the operator is $0". Not exactly accurate but close enough and therein lays the rub. The PROCESS to hire a non national should be such that it is cost prohibitive unless absolutely necessary. Hiring a non national for a Canadian employment position should be the LAST RESORT option, not the cheap and expedient option that it has become.

 

I will say it again....obtaining a work visa in Canada is easier than most other countries, including third world and developing nations. In my opinion, a pilot, rookie or pro, has the RIGHT to expect their government to do a better job of ensuring nationalism in the hiring process.

 

This is not only a problem in aviation but the entire Canadian workforce in general. If this country can’t fill positions with its own citizens then it needs to change and plan for the future. Outsourcing is a temporary and potentially disastrous policy and only adds to the problems in the future.

 

 

Complaining and debating the downfalls of outsourcing is hardly “whining” and I think it would be silly and irresponsible to NOT have the debate.

 

 

[TooTall]

I will say it again....obtaining a work visa in Canada is easier than most other countries, including third world and developing nations. In my opinion, a pilot, rookie or pro, has the RIGHT to expect their government to do a better job of ensuring nationalism in the hiring process.

 

Good to know that you are an expert on the system.

 

Lets go to CIC´s home page and have a look for what the requirements is to get a temp work permit:

For a company to hire a non Canadian citizen the company need to offer the employ an job and then get a labour market opinion that stats that there are no qualified Canadians that can obtain the job. If, after 21 days there are no qualified Canadians that can take the job the company can then offer/sponsor a qualified non Canadian this position.

 

For those that have the time and the will to read on CIC´s webpage here is the link for there temp work permit: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/index.asp

 

Good reading.

 

TT

[happyfeet]

So much misinformation here. The bottom line is that Jobs in Canada are scarce, and we could learn alot from the USA who protects the jobs for its citizens. There are far to many Andopodeans working in the industry in Canada for the amount of jobs that there are. Forget about permits for guys over a thousand hours as well. I know many pilots with more than a thousnad hours that are not working and its got nothing to do with skills. It has everything to do with money and wages anxd the companies security to keep them once trained.

 

Companies have gotten way to comfortable with the ease of hiring a foriegners and getting permits. It has to stop.

 

The other end of the coin is the way the companies manipulate the rules. Who advertises for a helicopter pilot in some remote non industry paper??? . Just goes to show ya the coruption.

 

This thing has to stop and stop now. And just maybe the industry will be forced to bring up more of the your eager Canadians that are looking to break into the industry.

 

 

2 cents