When Did This Happen ?

[FREDDIE]

Blades turn the other way on French mowers also.Quite windy here today goin flying to look for some new grass.Jim its good to be a hour ahead of the rest of BC it makes keener up here. :punk: :punk:

[Guest SidewallPuncture]

but you should take the opportunity to do some emergency training in strong winds. It can be an eye opener as to what's possible. It's also amazing how much more manageable the emergencies you mention get. It's amazing how much the weather vain effect can help out a tail rotor failure.

 

 

"I'll take 20 hours of windy training sir"

 

As everyone has said, you can't predict the winds...how on earth to you think anyone could actually schedule training to coincide with extreme wind conditions?

I agree with you that the wind can work in your favour, but how often will that miraculous chain of events ever happen. More often than not, murphy makes an appearance, rather than lady luck.

 

I'm not one to sh*t on someone for accidentally encountering adverse conditions, but the main thought is good PDM, with some effort to read the forecasts.

If some tool takes off in unmanagable winds for his skill, might as well leave the seat belts hanging out the door too because he's just not making the right choices.

The evidence is clear that this happens far too often.

 

[407 too]

I'd like to make a distinction with regard to "winds".

 

If you are talking a steady flow, whats the big deal ?? I have also flown with an 80 KT tailwind at altitude, smooth as glass. You just have to remember that upon descent you may or may not encounter a windsheer, so I always reduce indicated airspeed so that when you add the tailwind to your reduced airspeed, you will not exceed VNE (and possible retreating blade stalll) if you encounter a wind sheer.

 

If you are talking turbulant wind, your passengers stomachs will let you know the limit long before your aircraft limits are exceeded.

 

If you are talking "mechanical" turbulance (read mountain flows), then yes, you must be educated to avoid areas where your aircraft performance can be exceeded before you can spit.

[Zazu]

So what do you do if you take off with no wind and then find yourself with a 78 kt tailwind. Land ASAP or what?

 

 

I'm sure that when you ask anyone who has experienced these conditions they will tell you they did not take off in them. Unless of course you are one of those people that can tell the weather conditions 100 miles away as you sit in the hangar drinking coffee. Not everything about weather can be learned from a forecast.

 

Ooops - looks like FREDDIE beat me to the punch. What kind of mower do you have anyways?

 

 

Thanks for that Jimmy

[sirlandsalot]

407too couldn't of said it better! I always love it when you say to them "It's going to be very rough and we probally won't get much done" and they still want to go, I will usually go amd they will usually figure it out in a .2. The next time they listen better.

 

Ther is a HUGE difference betweem clean wind and rough air...two totally different conditions. The wind is actually very predictable. Mountain flows have a great side and a good side, In general, along the eastern slopes of the rockies, being from Grande Cache to Waterton, It is quite predictable that it will be rough! If it is blowing 50 kts over the ridge, it will really suck on the wrong side...80knts well, hope you are in the prarries!

 

I don't think there is any reason to get caught on the wrong side and not knowing what your getting in to. if you are in half the wind of what you and your machine are capable of, you better be ready on those eastern slopes!

 

my two cents....fly safe... and all that!

 

 

[dimit]

I'm confused by what seem to be blanket statements about flying in strong winds being bad PDM. Let's use a recent experience of mine as an example, and you can explain to me how it was bad or good PDM:

 

'Twas a beautiful, sunny, November day, and we were heading from Lethbridge out to the Coast in a lightly loaded 407. The Rocks looked glorious, and I told the engineer, "Let's see if we can go right over the top. It might be just a wee bit bumpy..." (That'd be understatement there). Around Pincher Creek we encountered the first lee wave and decided to thread the gap instead. Nice, smooth 60kt air squirted through the middle of the venturi; we stayed high and in the middle for a fine ride. A little further west we checked the ridge tops again, found it smooth(er), and cruised on into Cranbrook. The rest of the trip to the Coast was fantastic, over the top in relatively smooth, clear air.

 

I had the 9000' & 12000' Lethbridge winds before we left that morning, and knew it'd be smoking off the eastern ridges. I was expecting the lee waves, had a backup plan, and put that to work when the lee wave turbulence became uncomfortable. I stayed fairly high in the gap west of Pincher to avoid the inevitable turbulence lower down.

 

So what do you think?

 

Cheers,

 

Dick

[Zazu]

I wasn't there ol' Dicky boy but it sure sounded good! And me knowing you...and you knowing me knowing you etc etc, that would seem just fine by me The important question though is "did you spill your coffee"? That did it for me right there :punk: No Coffee, No Fly! :punk:

 

Fly safe bud and keep in touch...a few hints on raising young ladies would be appreciated as the years go by LOL.

 

 

Zazu

[Black Mike]

I've got a wind story for you guys,

 

Departed our base heading downstream to the coast for Water Survey job in our Jetranger.

1 passenger and 400 lbs gear. About 30kt winds or so inflow.

 

10 minutes into the flight, headwind picking up, junction of 3 valleys, 6500 feet asl we hit a downdraft- VSI at 2000 feet per minute down, torque 100 %, airspeed 60 Kts (optimum for climb in Jetranger). Too turbulent to turn around- finally leveled out at 3200 feet- ground level 2900 feet. Still 100% torque, Tops of trees about 200 feet below.

 

Turned around and flew home. Glad it wasn't windy that day like what you guys are talking about.

 

Juniors: watch the hills, they will get you.

 

B.M.

[rainman]

I've got a wind story for you guys,

 

Departed our base heading downstream to the coast for Water Survey job in our Jetranger.

1 passenger and 400 lbs gear. About 30kt winds or so inflow.

 

10 minutes into the flight, headwind picking up, junction of 3 valleys, 6500 feet asl we hit a downdraft- VSI at 2000 feet per minute down, torque 100 %, airspeed 60 Kts (optimum for climb in Jetranger). Too turbulent to turn around- finally leveled out at 3200 feet- ground level 2900 feet. Still 100% torque, Tops of trees about 200 feet below.

 

Turned around and flew home. Glad it wasn't windy that day like what you guys are talking about.

 

Juniors: watch the hills, they will get you.

 

B.M.

This is a good story! same similar thing happened to me when I was younger and dumber out of Prince Rupert BC. Had to check the shorts on that one.

The point of my post is that sometimes wind training is very necessary for where you will be flying. When I was a second year pup in the Charlottes, the base manager told me "when the wind hits 40 kt's to give him a call". That was practically a daily occurence so I gave him a call and he said fuel her up we're doing some mountain stuff! Let's just say I learned a thing or two about mountain flying in varying strengths of wind in my time there. High winds can be challenging but if you really understand what's going on (because you were trained), than you have at least a few more aces in the back pocket.

 

[407 too]

Sidewall,

 

PDM is graduated or varied depending on your knowledge (experiences).

 

I agree with you that going out in into the mountains with a 20kt. wind with no experience would be poor PDM., and that going out in the prairies with a 30kt wind would not.

 

As rainman and dimit pointed out, their level of knowledge makes their PDM choice different than somebody elses.

 

This is nothing new --- know your limits, flt within it ----

 

But saying "bad PDM" in you knowledge set, does not make it so in somebody elses.