Mountain Winds

[teabagger]

Mixmaster,

 

As you can already tell, there is no hard and fast number as far as a wind velocity limit is concerned. Each and every landing in the hills is different and that landing can change from day to day or from minute to minute. There are a lot of landings out there that look a lot friendlier than they actually are and the opposite may also be true.

 

A couple of things that have saved my bacon:

- respect the light and variable winds

- be more concerned about gust spread than wind velocity, if you loose the gust you loose your lift

- good lift with very low power is scary to me. One of my first bosses told me to be sure that you're able to load the disk. Never commit to landing if you have to lower the power below 30% tq on short final, the bottom will likely fall out on you.

- ALWAYS leave yourself an out, it's amazing how quickly things can go from feeling so good to feeling sooo bad

- WORK WITHIN YOUR OWN LIMITS! If your getting that puckering feeling, it's likely for a reason.

- LISTEN TO YOUR GUT! Its better than any rule, guideline, or magic number.

 

[skystar]

Inve$t into a mountian course or some mountian training...

 

Great comments and sugestions here, but time invested into a course is your best answer.

[Phil Croucher]

Does anyone have a "manual" or graphics on this? Great topic.

 

CJM

 

I've tried to encapsulate a lot of the bits of paper floating around crewrooms with this stuff in The Helicopter Pilot's Handbook, but heaven knows there are still some gaps - there's simply not enough space! (with special thanks to the stuff Brad Vardy wrote for CHL). Eric Stoof has a good company book for his students if you can get hold of one. There are doubtless others!

 

Phil

[mixmaster]

Skystar, I agree that a good mountain course is the best option. Unfortunately I am in the US and and I have never heard of anyone who teaches this kind of information down here. I have met some who have attended courses in Canada, which by all accounts are excellent, but quite expensive. I currently am well away from true mountains and that is unlikely to change soon and funds do not permit attending a Mountain course in Canada. Oh Well!

 

I would say from just talking to pilots in the US that there is much confusion about the whole mountain operation business and how mountain winds work. Looking at the very large number of thread views it seems to be a subject many are interested in.

 

Anyone who has attended a mountain course, whats it like, where, how much flying, etc, would be interested to know (still would like to know more about winds and types of rotor systems).

 

Anyway, thanks to all who have contributed and those that will, very interesting so far.

 

Mixmaster

[Black Mike]

Skystar, I agree that a good mountain course is the best option. Unfortunately I am in the US and and I have never heard of anyone who teaches this kind of information down here. I have met some who have attended courses in Canada, which by all accounts are excellent, but quite expensive. I currently am well away from true mountains and that is unlikely to change soon and funds do not permit attending a Mountain course in Canada. Oh Well!

 

I would say from just talking to pilots in the US that there is much confusion about the whole mountain operation business and how mountain winds work. Looking at the very large number of thread views it seems to be a subject many are interested in.

 

Anyone who has attended a mountain course, whats it like, where, how much flying, etc, would be interested to know (still would like to know more about winds and types of rotor systems).

 

Anyway, thanks to all who have contributed and those that will, very interesting so far.

 

Mixmaster

Mixmaster,

 

With the LongRanger, you need 2 things to make it work, into wind, whatever it takes, (not like the Astar that can get away with a little downwind landing so I am told, and have seen) Also the smaller tailrotor on the Longranger will get you on the left stop a few times until you figure it out. (thats why the high altitude tailrotor was invented) At this point, just go around and come in the right direction. It tells you when you are doing the approach if you are coming in downwind.

Never lift off, (into wind) and do a sharp right hand turn downwind to get home faster, you will spin around and overtorque as you try to stop the turn and then you will be in a not nice place.

 

Number 2 you must load the disc, again, whatever it takes, so when the gust/wind stops, you don't plummet to earth too fast, because you will. Keep moving forward a bit. The governor doesn't have time to react to fast collective movements, therefore lower rpm, lift not as good, tailrotor rpm down a bit- too many things against you as you are trying to keep under control. This is why the escape route for when it doesn't work. The sideways approach sometimes works well, escape route straight ahead for a no-brainer departure if needed.

 

Also don't be bad or feel the need to make up excuses if you make a couple attempts and then go land somewhere else- I have flown in the mountains for over 30 years and do this every flying day if it is windy. Customers get used to it.

 

We will often travel from base, full load, get to the bottom of the mountain, split the load in half- ie 2 guys get out with a pack or two, 2 trips to the top, easier landings with lighter load, back home. This usually only takes an extra .1 hour, much safer, machine and you get home for beer that night. (Canadian beer that is, your beer is too weak) Mountain base here is around 6000 feet and tops 13,000, always windy and turbulent.

I cannot help you out with the 3 or 4 blade systems, I have never flown them, someone else can step in here.

B.M.

[helicopterjim]

Also don't be bad or feel the need to make up excuses if you make a couple attempts and then go land somewhere else- I have flown in the mountains for over 30 years and do this every flying day if it is windy. Customers get used to it.

 

Probably the most important part of all this. If you learn this then you will have the time to learn all the rest.

 

Reading Mikes posts makes me think that if I ever get to flying lights again I'm going to be a very humble pilot!

 

Cheers

Jim

[Elan Head]

Skystar, I agree that a good mountain course is the best option. Unfortunately I am in the US and and I have never heard of anyone who teaches this kind of information down here. I have met some who have attended courses in Canada, which by all accounts are excellent, but quite expensive. I currently am well away from true mountains and that is unlikely to change soon and funds do not permit attending a Mountain course in Canada. Oh Well!

 

I would say from just talking to pilots in the US that there is much confusion about the whole mountain operation business and how mountain winds work. Looking at the very large number of thread views it seems to be a subject many are interested in.

 

Anyone who has attended a mountain course, whats it like, where, how much flying, etc, would be interested to know (still would like to know more about winds and types of rotor systems).

 

Anyway, thanks to all who have contributed and those that will, very interesting so far.

 

Mixmaster

 

Hi all,

 

This is a very timely topic — in the April-May issue of Vertical, which is at the printer right now, I write about the Canadian Helicopters mountain flying course in Penticton, B.C. and my own experiences there. I first visited the school about three years ago, and it simply blew me away: not only did I learn a lot that I was completely unaware of, I learned that a lot of what I had been taught in my standard FAA commercial syllabus was just WRONG.

 

Mountain flight training in the U.S. sucks. So many pilots in the U.S. are forced to figure out mountain flying on the job — and the accident record reflects that. From what I've seen, Canadian helicopter pilots tend to get much better mountain training from the get-go and throughout their careers. U.S. operators just don't seem to appreciate how important mountain flight training is.

 

Mixmaster, check out Western Helicopters in Rialto, Calif. if you can — they offer a five-hour course in a 300C, which is pretty cost-effective. I've dumped quite a bit of money into my own mountain training, both in Canada and New Zealand, but it has been worth every penny, and worth saving up for. Until you can get to a course, find every experienced mountain pilot you can and pick their brains!!

 

Also, Mixmaster, if you drop me an email at elan at verticalmag.com, I'll email you the "long" version of my Canadian Helicopters story, which has a lot of detailed info on the school's techniques.

 

Cheers,

 

Elan

[06HeliMAN]

I would say from just talking to pilots in the US that there is much confusion about the whole mountain operation business and how mountain winds work. Looking at the very large number of thread views it seems to be a subject many are interested in.

 

This is very true especially down in the southeast parts of the US where I fly. Finding somewhere for quality mountain down here is next to impossible.

 

[splitpin]

Also, Mixmaster, if you drop me an email at elan at verticalmag.com, I'll email you the "long" version of my Canadian Helicopters story, which has a lot of detailed info on the school's techniques.

 

Cheers,

 

Elan

 

Why don't you just post it here Elan, so the rest of us mere minions can see it as well?? I'm sure Kyle can spare the bandwidth.

 

All in favor, say "AYE" :D

 

[06HeliMAN]

AYE! :up: Always ready for a bit of ground school.