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Correct me if am wrong but doesn't CALPA stand for Canadian Airline Pilots Association? Isn't the union for air canada selling their sole about now to keep jobs for the potentially new owner? We can't even get along with other helicopter people, yeah they'd assist us all the way to the funny farm after reading this thread. We'd be better off getting the farmers to unite with us, seem to have more in common with them(have fun, lose money, work hard, lose money, have fun, lose money, work hard.....) well maybe not the right group. Maybe the Hooters girls have an association they wouldn't mind sharing with us(could skip the work hard part of things). :up:


sc(gone to Joey Tomatoes for research) :P


PS. forgot that Farmers argue with each other like us too. :up:


PSS I know that CALPA nothing to do with the union representing ac.

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I totally agree. The CALPA people would have a major hoot if they ever saw any of these threads, however I think that they would be very interested in a couple thousand potential new members even if our wings go around and around.


They might be interested in setting up a helo chapter of their org. or they might be interested in helping us out on a consulting basis with how to go about starting, setting up and running an association of our own. Things like how best to disseminate information, how many employees would be neccessary to run such a beast and how to avoid the personality problems we seem to get mired down in.


If we Tradesmen want to become professionals I think getting advise from those that have already gone through that process would be a good place to start.

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w/apologies, don... as you are aware, the powers that be have been busy tryin' to teach this dumb irishman how to fly by the numbers (i found colouring by numbers more my speed!) :) ... it would appear you could use a little support in your bid to improve the canadian helo industry (despite your retirement from same.)


while i appreciate that you've probably got shoes that are older than a large percentage of the participants within this forum :D ... AND you've undoubtedly forgotten more about the flying biz than this scribbler will ever know, this written forum does NOT lend itself well to an accurate perception of an individual's words/intent... in addition, your inclination to call a spade a "foggin shovel" apparently has the tendency to offend on occasion <_<


that is naturally problematic in this enlightened age of political correctness...


despite the sudbury table manners (being from sulphur city, i can say that!), you have singlehandedly brought this association issue to the forefront and obviously continue to generate precisely the kind of dialogue that this business requires today...


your efforts within a few short months have been significant indeed...


On the 100th anniversary of powered flight, (the 17th day of December, 2003)

the Helicopter Engineers and Pilots Association, Canada (HEPAC) received its

Charter to form a non-profit organization seeking to improve the profession

of helicopter engineers and pilots as well as the Canadian helicopter

industry as a whole.


We will do so through industry lobbying, the promotion of safety research

and advancements and seeking improvements in pilot, engineering, employer

and customer/client relations.


What do we represent? PROFESSIONALISM.


Promotion of HEPAC as a unified voice for Engineers & Pilots.

Recognition and acceptance of differing perspectives & needs.

Organization of qualified membership.

Fairness in the workplace.

Ensuring minimal operational standards are exceeded in practice.

Succession planning for tomorrow.

Strategic resource for membership.

Insurance industry liaison for both membership and aircraft risks.

Open & ongoing communication.

New ideas think-tank.

Accountability for the quality of our work.


Identification of industry needs.

Solutions that are timely and equitable.

Mentorship programs development & support.



i am confident that no one within this industry can possibly take issue with any of the ideals/intent expressed above...


both this ongoing discussion and development of a professional association is LONG overdue...


you've planted the seed... hopefully some younger folk will now rise to the challenge ahead of this organization...


i thank you sincerely for your efforts to date.






the only time you fail is when you don't try to succeed

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It was sad to witness the angry words re HEPAC. I think HEPAC is a good idea and I hope it persists. Membership may take some time to grow but it eventually will. There are some serious issues that need to be addressed regarding the working conditions of pilots and engineers.

I seems as though some recent posts have been deleted but I sincerely think that Blackmac was baited by other posters. He is trying to do a good thing and I hope we can all get behind HEPAC.

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I think Blackmac has effectively scuttled the HEPAC ship. His intentions were excellent but he was too easily provoked to be an effective salesman for the association. The Top Dog of the association is going to have to be a master diplomat to be able to navigate through all the obstacles and naysayers to achieve the goal of a professional body to represent us.


Helicopper, what about you? You obviously have the gift of the gab and support the cause.

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i appreciate the thought reddog... as you perceive, i do indeed STRONGLY support the cause and recognize that a little bit of irish blarney can produce a desired effect on occasion...


however, at some point you must be able to support the blarney with experience, which is where i personally fall considerably short of what we require for the head of HEPAC... my flying background is both limited (1500+ hrs) as well as "pigeon-holed" within a somewhat narrow, law enforcement niche...


when don reached out for a token director for the purposes of this not-for-profit organization/charter/association, i readily accepted the position to enable him to officially create HEPAC on 17DEC03... don's extremely enthusiastic INTENT (at that time... and remains to be to my knowledge) was to commence recruitment with a mind to setting a date for a first meeting at which point the MEMBERSHIP will elect its chosen representatives/directors... and don will ultimately take considerable satisfaction in his participation in some capacity from which HIS considerable experience will benefit HEPAC best.


given our limited audience to date (obviously HEPAC will require a broader audience base than caaviation alone can provide... with all due respect/thanks to kyle for his considerable support to date) and admittedly limited time (certainly on MY part at the present time)... our initial recruitment efforts are in need of assistance/ideas... and, quite frankly, advertising $$.


at this point in time, i agree with phil's input above... HEPAC would obviously fare significantly better by having 500 members signed up at $50/head as opposed to an extremely limited group at $200/head!!... i would support this idea for the purposes of getting the word out initially... we can address increased membership dues once we accomplish a membership!!


as i stated on an earlier forum, i would be pleased to play a continued role in HEPAC more in tune with my experiences to date... for example, in the police world , we would never send a rookie out on his own in a cruiser within his/her first 6 months on the job... i would love to work with tc with a mind to developing a mentorship program in conjunction with operators who recognize the need for future succession planning as well as ongoing specialized training which would see our industry's shiny, new 100 hr wonders teamed up with the old salts for their first season... have the insurance folk on board/contributing... win-win for all concerned.


bottom line... there are HUNDREDS of good ideas out there (which will benefit ALL aspects of this industry)... but until we get together, these ideas will simply remain to be bantered about over a few cold ones at the end of a long day... and never take wing... and it is all of our responsibility (as benefactors of this industry) to ensure that does NOT happen.






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Good on you Helicopper :


I only wish that I could have some input here, but alas I also suffer from the inability to be " politically correct " must be my background and experience.....where I have been working being "politically correct " will only get an Uzi rammed up your ***.....but I am wandering again....


I have the advantage of not needing knee pads and show proof that I will "submit " to those who think that warm touchy feeling words will solve all problems. Because I like Don no longer have to impress anyone to get ahead.


I sincerely hope that this organization gets up and is sucessful and am planning on being a member should it do so.


When Biggsie gets back home I think I shall have a chat with her.


All the best Don :up: and these guys got off easy....I would not have been so poilte. :D



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