marc Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I am being offered the opportunity to wrench on the side for a guy who owns his own piston powered helicopter. As far as CARs is concerned I do not need to do it under an AMO. Is this correct? What are the liability issues associated with this type of work? Any thoughts or tips from guys who are or have been in a similar situation would be much appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmac Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 You would be held liable by any insurance company and TC for any work carried out and signed for using your license. Remember private individuals have a habit of working on their own machines. Could be wrong. Cheers, Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullet Remington Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 BM is correct. I work on a privately owned piston as well. The owner supplies the latest revision status manuals. ( I check them for currency). As for liability to the insurance company/ies no big deal! You, as an AME are liable to this party, regardless of what type registraion is on the aircraft - Private commercial under an AMo approval or not! That is part and parcel of holding the AME license. We are accountable!! I've also done work on a private turbine Fling Wing. Hopwever, I had a deal set up with an approved AMO PRIOR to touching it. Manuals and equipment met both CARs and Manufactureer's requirements as well. Depending upon the owner, I have no qualms about working on a private helicopter. Planks, a completely different storey!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splitpin Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Planks, a completely different storey!! And why is that BR? I'm curious to see if your thoughts are the same as mine regarding maintenance on private fixed wing aircraft. :down: :down: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullet Remington Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 And why is that BR? I'm curious to see if your thoughts are the same as mine regarding maintenance on private fixed wing aircraft. :down: :down: The majority of private owners are experts! They know everything, can do everything, don't have tools, don't have tools, they don't have manuals, they don't need tools nor manuals. They either want to use my tools, OR usually, they want me to show up and sign off their Log books for $40.00! Those that don't don't want to pay for the work they asked to have done in the first place! I don't do much aircraft maintenance anymore. better bucks and benefits being a greasy paw HD/ Auto mechanic! Incidently, here in Alberta, an AMO is NOT required to maintain privately registered piston pounding helicopters! The CARs clearly state that for TURBINE ya need to be an AMO OR work under the authority of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 The CARs clearly state that for TURBINE ya need to be an AMO OR work under the authority of one. BR, I respectfully disagree with the statement above. CARs 571.11(3) states that an AMO is required to authorize the AME if aircraft operated under Part IV (flight training) or Part VII (commercial operations) The AME needs a TC approved maintenance course or be grandfathered before the license change to certify maintenance on turbine powered helicopters (even private ones). A privately operated turbine helicopter that weighs more than 6018 LBS needs a maintenance schedule, but still no requirement for AMO authorized AME to certify maintenance. I may have missed something in the CARs but I'm pretty certain regarding the above statement. Sven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 thanks for the responses guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bullet Remington Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Sven: Disagree all you want, just go ahead and do it and let me know what TC in Ontario says about it. In the PNR its different, as it probably is in other regions. While i AGREE with your interpretation, TC will not necessarily agree. My recommendations is that you DON'T do like I did, but rather check with the regional office BEFORE you engage in a bunch of work that will, in all porobablity have to be redo. I STILL won't touch a Turbine helicopter and i have held my endorsements PRIO to 1990. It has been my experience that Transport catagory planks AND fling Wing reuire an AMO , require the release froma M@ license with suitable type course. All this points to commercially registered aircraft. Commercially registered aircraft MUSt be maintain by an AMO. This accordingto CARs and my expert TCCA M & M Inspector! Hence, I stated in my previous post, "CARs State.."" If that's the way the TC M & M Innspector states it is, so be it!! Also note that I stated, I don't do much maintenance anymore; Too much hassle; not enough money, too much fustration dealing with dfifferent TC Inspectors intrepretation of CARs, too many days in Butt f&(k Nowhere living in a tent and freezing my arse off for too little money. Since you quote 571.11 93) here's my quote: 3) Except as provided in subsection (7), no person shall sign a maintenance release in respect of maintenance performed on an aircraft operated under Part IV or VII, or on parts intended to be installed on the aircraft, unless (amended 2000/12/01; previous version) (a) the person is authorized to sign in accordance with a maintenance policy manual (MPM) established by the holder of an AMO certificate issued under section 573.02 with a rating of a category appropriate to the work performed; or 4) Except as provided in subsection (5), no person shall sign a maintenance release in respect of maintenance performed on a transport category aeroplane or a turbine-powered helicopter, unless the person (amended 2000/12/01; previous version) (a) has successfully completed a course of maintenance training that has been approved by the Minister and that is applicable to the type of aircraft, engine or system on which the maintenance is performed, in accordance with Appendix M of Chapter 571 of the Airworthiness Manual; or (amended 2000/12/01; previous version) ( held a type rating applicable to the type of aircraft, engine or system on which the maintenance is performed, issued by the Minister before August 1, 1999. (5) The holder of an applicable AME licence may sign a maintenance release in respect of maintenance performed on a transport category aeroplane or a turbine-powered helicopter that consists of any of the types of work set out in Schedule III without having successfully completed the course required by paragraph (4)(a) and without having held the type rating required by paragraph (4)(. (5) The holder of an applicable AME licence may sign a maintenance release in respect of maintenance performed on a transport category aeroplane or a turbine-powered helicopter that consists of any of the types of work set out in Schedule III without having successfully completed the course required by paragraph (4)(a) and without having held the type rating required by paragraph (4)(. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splitpin Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 The majority of private owners are experts! They know everything, can do everything, don't have tools, don't have tools, they don't have manuals, they don't need tools nor manuals. They either want to use my tools, OR usually, they want me to show up and sign off their Log books for $40.00! Those that don't don't want to pay for the work they asked to have done in the first place! Then they howl and squeal when they find out what your shop rate is and yet cheerfully spend a lot more getting their car repaired. Worst ones are Lawyers, Teachers and Doctors. The only ones I loved working for were the "suspected cross border nightime flyers" I asked no questions and it was always cash up front and always a SUBSTANTIAL tip!! Had a Teacher tell me once...I'm a Teacher and I don't make that kind of money so I told him I didn't either when I was a Teacher!! :up: :up: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Watson Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 I agree with you Split, in my experience private operators of whatever type of aircraft, are only looking for the cheapest rate. They drive up in a late model luxury car, have a job that pays way more than AME wages (tht's how they can afford an aircraft) and will try and squeeze every nickel and piece of advice out of you for free. I had one of the above types approach me to find out how to operate a GPS he had just bought thru Trade A Plane. He got upset when I suggested it would cost him $75 per hour for training. That being said, everyone has their own level of risk management and I am sure lots of guys out there do fine working for someone on their private aircraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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