Desperate Times?

[donnybrook]

ok, i always get sucked in to these threads. i just have to say that i am vehemently opposed to working/flying for free...and especially paying for training. to the best of my knowledge there haven't been too many people here admitting that they have worked for free, as they would be flamed for sure... most likely by me! it is not part of an "apprenticeship", as apprentices get paid. or at least they should!

 

the differentiation i see is doing non-rev flying for a company with whom you are currently employed (and paid). you might not be paid for flying, but there aren't a lot of places that pay non-rev anyway. go find a good, upstanding company that will give you a wage and prove yourself! i know a bunch of good people currently doing it and they're on their way. get off your ***. man, seriously, i'm not kidding when i say that if i can do it anyone can...

 

[splitpin]

Why I remember in the old days!!! It seemed like we all worked for free.

Seriously though, while I do not condone newbies working for free, I can certainly understand the desperation in trying to get that first break. I don't think I could honestly pass judgement on someone just trying to put food on the table for the Spouse and Kiddies.

 

And by the way--Zoltar. Me thinks it's very bad form to be slamming our Brothers from PQ.

I have spent a LOT of time in PQ as many members here have and have always had a good time. Good folks, Stunning Lady's, fine living, and thats coming from a crusty old redneck West-Coaster who tends to look at life through a narrow sewer pipe.

[Zoltar]

Why I remember in the old days!!! It seemed like we all worked for free.

Seriously though, while I do not condone newbies working for free, I can certainly understand the desperation in trying to get that first break. I don't think I could honestly pass judgement on someone just trying to put food on the table for the Spouse and Kiddies.

 

And by the way--Zoltar. Me thinks it's very bad form to be slamming our Brothers from PQ.

I have spent a LOT of time in PQ as many members here have and have always had a good time. Good folks, Stunning Lady's, fine living, and thats coming from a crusty old redneck West-Coaster who tends to look at life through a narrow sewer pipe.

Sorry folks taken out of context and re-reading my original post I can say I wrote it out of frustration and was not intending to "slam" anybody.Having spent the first 26 years of my life in La Belle Province je peut dire honetement que mes mots n'etaits pas tout a fait corrrects. That being said , what I really meant was that the helicraft "pay to fly" and passport helico fly for free programs are ridiculous and hope that those poisonous attitudes don't migrate elsewhere, sorry for the offence.

[Hello-bird]

Is the Heli-industry union? Or, does it function on union principals? I ask because I've read through quite a few posts re: low timers flying for free / not flying for free etc... and it kind of sounds union.

 

Small buisness owners work for free a lot. A lot of people, actually, work for "free." Ie: they bust their hump and do extras until they establish themselves. Without a sense of entitlement. Artists are no different. Within reason, of course.

 

Once a person establishes credibility and a name for themselves, the dough comes. And it's just expected that the first few years are an investment into the future. Or as my Pa says,

"short term compromise, for long term gain."

 

[splitpin]

Sorry folks taken out of context and re-reading my original post I can say I wrote it out of frustration and was not intending to "slam" anybody.Having spent the first 26 years of my life in La Belle Province je peut dire honetement que mes mots n'etaits pas tout a fait corrrects. That being said , what I really meant was that the helicraft "pay to fly" and passport helico fly for free programs are ridiculous and hope that those poisonous attitudes don't migrate elsewhere, sorry for the offence.

 

I understand Zoltar. You have a good day, and fly safe!! :up: :up:

[Over-Talk]

Most of the Canadian helicopter industry is radically NON union.

I don't think a union would let their members work for no pay......(but that's mainly so that they can scrape their union dues out of them).

 

As for the thoughts on breaking into a career and working for free.

Let's look at we are talking about here......

These are licenced Commercial Pilots we are talking about here...they take your family up for a helicopter tour and keep them safe. Do you want that job to go to the lowest bidder ??

 

And when does it stop??? At how many hours do you start getting paid ??

 

Do NOT fly for free.

 

There are very valid ways of showing how keen you are without resorting to that sort of move.

If that is how low your personal standards are, what level of bad weather will you fly in, or how much will you ignore what the torque gauge is reading.

 

Have some pride, Captain.

Do NOT fly for free.

[Zoltar]

Exactly over-talk!

[donnybrook]

"You think given the choice that a starving pilot would go without pay, what that does to his/her pride? Can you imagine the desperate plight of a person who goes to those lengths to get their career going. It's a choice to get a bit of experiance so that he has something on his resume` besides 100 hours and "fry guy" at Mc D's and no flying or ground experiance at all. It's the glimmer of hope that they would realise their dream that makes a person sink to that level, do you think that it is done easily or with out thought, weighing the options? Like i said, it's easy to criticize if you found work but don't you see the absurdity of your statement? "get off your ***. man, seriously, i'm not kidding when i say that if i can do it anyone can..." I don't have the numbers or the energy to look it up but it would be interesting to know how many CHPs were trained in Canada in the last 10 years and how many of them are flying. I have heard numbers like 1 in 10 but who knows.... But you donnybrook, say that everyone can do it, well tell me how we can find everyone a seat your way instead of just criticizing those who have gone a different route. "get off your a$$" just doesn't cut it."

 

 

Dude seriously, starving pilot working for no pay=starving pilot. i'm no genius but c'mon...! i didn't just "happen" into a seat. it took 10 years and an AME licence to get there. no absurdity involved. paying for training or flying revenue hours for free is not a "different route", it is a cheap *** shortcut..... and by the way not "everyone" can do it, but anyone can...

[longliner]

When I started in the industry I remember being asked by the CFI if I liked camping to which I responded in the affirmative Little did I know!!

My daughter in law went through medical school and although it was expensive she had researched it extensively and there were no suprises

I would like to hold the aviation schools responsible for the current crunch that low time pilots find themselves in but I cannot...If the student does his/her research then they know the status of the industry they are entering...tough times...everywhere

Would I do it again/was it worth it?...absolutely

Would I do it now with the present economic climate...Don't know..consider the debt load ...job

availability etc...For the first time in 35 yrs I've had to go offshore for a reasonable job... 14000 plus hours

I think all prospective traines need to do a serious reality check

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest jacdor]

Sorry folks taken out of context and re-reading my original post I can say I wrote it out of frustration and was not intending to "slam" anybody.Having spent the first 26 years of my life in La Belle Province je peut dire honetement que mes mots n'etaits pas tout a fait corrrects. That being said , what I really meant was that the helicraft "pay to fly" and passport helico fly for free programs are ridiculous and hope that those poisonous attitudes don't migrate elsewhere, sorry for the offence.

 

 

Ok I hear you

 

That attitude may have originated from overseas perhaps?

 

 

JD