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Vortex Ring State Versus Settling With Power.


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I am a bit surprised at this discussion as it is mandated in the TC ACP manual that when conducting a PPC check the ACP MUST ask exactly these 2 questions , as well as one on Dynamic roll-over.

 

DB was correct in his first post, which of course he already knew, he is just bored while recuperating :D

 

For VRS to occur you must have 3 things present: High rate of decent (at least 500 ft/min in modern helicopters), less than translation airspeed, and partial power. This was a description I remember Wes Prouty describing many years ago when he used to write for Rotor and Wing.

 

Gross weight, alt, wind, etc, etc has nothing to do with it. I remember learning this the hard way with an empty 205 and a 150 ft line......"there I was, nothing on the clock but the makers name" :wacko:

 

 

Settling with Power, is what happens when you take-off at sea level with a gross load in your little Jetty and try and land at 8000 ft ASL and 30c :shock:

The empty long line struck a chord. I have probably gotten into VRS 3 or 4 times and it has always been with an empty long line or an empty bucket. We're probably paying much better attention when we are carrying a heavy load.

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Are you a TRE now?? Jeez the collective must be getting desperate.

 

Hey DB, are you sure it was only your hips that needed replacement.....I was an ACP back when you were still hand flying a triple deuce in the muck :D:P

 

P.S. did you get the pics I sent to your hotmail?

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Ok girls, enough b**ch slapping and hair pulling so here it goes. I've managed to track down, from flight school ten years ago, a Transport Canada Helicopter Flight Training Manual document # TP 9982E. This section directly covers vortex ring, but if you look at the second and third form last paragraphs it also addresses settling with power and over pitching. Enjoy!!!

 

That's what I'm talkin about!!! Thank you for the clarification.

 

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My $0.02 is that Settling with power is a condition of powered Flight in which the helicopter settles in its own downwash. Also known as Vortex Ring State.

Conditions conducive to Settling With Power

1. At least a 300 ft./min. rate of descent

2. High power (20%-100%) with insufficient power to stop the descent

3. Low A/S (less then ETL)

In My opinion the keywords are "with insufficient power to stop the descent" because if you are settling into your own downwash but have sufficient power to get out of it, is it really Settling With Power or Vortex Ring State? I say NO its just a descent.

 

Vortex Ring state also may occure in the T/R with winds from 210-330 degerees relitive to the nose of the aircraft under ETL

 

Justin

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Since it seems to be soo misunderstood....

 

I think I settled with power/ vortexed while climbing out of a hole and ascending at 1500 feet a minute the other day, then again while in cruise at 110 knots.

 

Holly S%#T that was scary!!!

:boff:

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My $0.02 is that Settling with power is a condition of powered Flight in which the helicopter settles in its own downwash. Also known as Vortex Ring State.

Conditions conducive to Settling With Power

1. At least a 300 ft./min. rate of descent

2. High power (20%-100%) with insufficient power to stop the descent

3. Low A/S (less then ETL)

In My opinion the keywords are "with insufficient power to stop the descent" because if you are settling into your own downwash but have sufficient power to get out of it, is it really Settling With Power or Vortex Ring State? I say NO its just a descent.

 

Vortex Ring state also may occure in the T/R with winds from 210-330 degerees relitive to the nose of the aircraft under ETL

 

Justin

 

 

Wrong.

 

See above post from teabagger.

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Guest bag swinnger

Anyone believing that Settling with power is the same as Vortex ring state has clearly never been in Vortex ring state... Only then can you truly know the difference.

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If your sitting there wondering why your falling so fast you probably have VRS

 

If your sitting there using all the power you have and are thinking that this is going to hurt then you have settling with power

 

If your sitting there using all the power you have and are thinking this is going to hurt plus all the bells and whistles are going off too...then you are over pitching

 

:P

 

 

 

 

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