Vortex Ring State Versus Settling With Power.

[deuce bigalow]

Just a few questions about what your saying.When you would "induce vortex ring state" are you lowering the collective fully or holding power on?The only way you would be in vortex ring state is if you held a significent amount of power on through the entire decent and verticaled the whole way down.Otherwise it would be an autorotational decent. I think that you may have initially started the decent in vortex but with any airspeed you would not be in vortex anymore.

 

 

Thought I would go back and review the thread. I realized I didn't respond to this one . The answer is true VRS all the way down. About cruise power or a little more on the collective and pulling more increases an already shocking, off the clock rate of decent. When ready collective is lowered and a lateral move has the effect of a chute being deployed. instant full stop on the decent. Then you resume a normal approach to the landing usually with a 180 at the bottom to position for the next climb up. As stated by Auto relight, one doesn't want to get too cute with the timing because the sight of 200' of line coiling rapidly beneath one is a bit disconcerting.

 

I was doing this in the mid 80's in the pouring rain with the door off and a pair of goggles to enable myself to see something. Soaking wet and freezing cold. Snowing at the pick.

 

At that point I decided to get an Instrument rating as I reasoned there must be an easier way to make a living.

[deuce bigalow]

Deuce .........things might have changed in the interim, but I was taught the same as you were about both of these subjects when I took R/W training with the American military. Perhaps there's a new way of thinking nowadays, but as I remember the only difference between both countries at that time was in F/W IFR and that had to do with the shape of the 'Holding Patterns'........one was 'race track' and the other wasn't, but even that wasn't a big deal.

 

Here are two attachments that were posted earlier in the thread. One is a TC document and it states clearly the difference between the two. This is the correct answer on a check ride no matter what anyone thinks.

 

The second is from some sort of a training manual that may or may not be US in origin.

 

Easy to see given these two official (looking ) documents why there is confusion on the issue.

 

 

TC VRS

 

Training manual

 

[rainman]

The coolest thing about reading Deuces posts... apart from his knowledge.

Is knowing the man and hearing him speak his posts in my head. That dry,witty humour that just doesn't get through on the posts.

Deuce, how is Rupert these days anyhow?

[deuce bigalow]

The coolest thing about reading Deuces posts... apart from his knowledge.

Is knowing the man and hearing him speak his posts in my head. That dry,witty humour that just doesn't get through on the posts.

Deuce, how is Rupert these days anyhow?

 

Beats me. I'm in Victoria recuperating from surgery. I'll be back in the land of Mordor in August. I'll say hi to Sauron for ya.

 

[twinstar_ca]

Beats me. I'm in Victoria recuperating from surgery. I'll be back in the land of Mordor in August. I'll say hi to Sauron for ya.

 

wishing you speedy recovery, DB!!!

[deuce bigalow]

wishing you speedy recovery, DB!!!

 

 

Thanks buddy!! It can't be speedy enough.

[Black Mike]

Hey Guys,

 

I did some flight training with Bell in Ft. Worth in Jan. We took a L-4 to 3000 feet and the instructor put the machine into "vortex ring" as we discussed at the pre flight briefing. We did the recovery and all was O.K.

Discussed the settling with power, which is a no-brainer.

It seems that our U.S. friends do have the right description as per the event, at least at Bell.

 

If the rain finally stops some day, maybe we can try flying a little and test a few of these things out.

B.M.

[cap]

Deuce ........I've seen the same differences over the eons and your example is just another one of the bunch.........but your point is made once again.

 

I took my initial R/W training in the US, courtesy of the US Army. My F/W training happened in Canada, courtesy of a very experienced IP, who was also a WW2 WASP Ferry Pilot.... American-trained AND my mother. Take my word for it..........there's no basic difference between either country, so fire that thought into the toilet or some garbage pail. 'Blade tip stall' is the same in either country and ditto for subjects of discussion here. You 'settle with power' in the US and you better know how to get out of it or the same will happen to you as in Canada......so forget the 49th Parallel being any difference. Anyone who hasn't been taught the difference in either country should need a serious operation............to remove their foot from the anus of their IP at whatever school they learned.

 

Sorry, but after somebody has been awarded a license to fly a multi-million dollar piece of property, belonging to and insured by somebody else.....and able to carry passengers also.......I consider the ignorance concerning these discussed subjects to be demonstrating that the teaching part of this business has failed miserably. The only good part of the subject is that someone who doesn't actually know has the backbone to ask someone else......,but otherwise it only demonstrates why 250 hours is far from adequate to be an Aviation Instructor.

[Blade Slapped]

Just saw great footage on TV, on the Discovery Channel. The show "Destroyed in Seconds", a Canadian armed forces CH 142 Sea King, doing a demonstration at a New York air show. The Sea King had just finished doing a series of maneuvers and was hovering at 400' Agl, and proceeded to do a vertical landing from that altitude and got into Vortex Ring State, and subsequently was destroyed...

 

Check it out good footage.

[twinstar_ca]

i remember when that vid came out, BS... was very graphic as to the results...

 

to me, this whole topic just shows the difference between our 2 countries as to training... whats most important to me is that we are aware of both conditions and recognize how to get out of them!!