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The Blind Leading The Stupid!

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Anybody hear about Ontario's M. N. R. new requirement for any Astar operator wanting to work forestry this summer in Ontario?????

"In the interest of safety the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources is requiring the compliance with and installation of the following:

ASB 29.00.07 Hydraulic Power Improvement of the "hydraulic cutoff" function is mandatory.

SB 63.00.08 Main Rotor drive (poly-V type Drive belt) will become mandatory as stated by Transport Canada"

I wonder which idiot in the M.N.R. let himself be conviced that these two modifications would make Astars any safer. :down: :down: :down:

It really tics me off when customers decide they know more about the helicopters than the operators :angry: :angry: :angry:

Gee, I wonder if Eurocopter had anything to do with this. They get to sell us even more overpriced parts that we don't friggin need!!!!!!!

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Yeah is frustrating but the electrical shutoff kit is free and the v-belt kit is a good idea and should have been done years ago, the stupid little belt is good for very few things, maybe sweatbands for the habs, who knows.


What surprised me was that the mnr knew about the sb for electrical shutoff before we did, kinda hard to be proactive when that shite goes on.



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I respect both your opinions boys but I disagree on the Poly-V belt mod. I've been in this business for many many years and worked on many different Astars and I've only come across 1 belt failure which resulted in the pilot flying back to staging so I could replace it. As far as I'm concerned, those green belts are just as safe when installed and maintained i.a.w. the maintenance manual.

Besides, the M.N.R. accident had nothing to do with the belt failing, it had to do with the hydraulic system malfunctioning after the belt failiure.

The results would have been the same if he'd had the poly-v belt installed but suffered a loss of hydraulic fluid, punctured hydraulic hose etc.

I think installing a different kind of belt is pointless because it still doesn't solve the "flipping upside down" issue after a hydraulic failure and, the operators who don't keep the proper tension on the green belt are going to be the same operators who don't properly maintain the new poly-v belt!!!!

Besides, why are we wasting our time with a friggin belt anyways, that pump should be gear driven in the first place!!!!


####, I agree with you that the M.N.R pays the bill so they sould call the shots but I find it frustrating that the federal government tells the general public that a pilot with 100hrs of training is qualified to fly your wife and kids but is not qulified to fly the employees of the M.N.R. or any other provincial forestry department.

At this moment, Transport Canada says that the general public is safe flying in Astars in their current modification status (and I agree) but the Ontario government doesn't think so.

What's basically happening is that the government has two standards, one for you, your wife and kids and friends etc. and a higher one for its employees. If the Astar's status quo isn't good enough for provincial employees, why is it good enough for the rest of the population. Does the M.N.R. know something that the Transportation Safety Board doesn't!!!!!

If those two modifications are proven to make Astars safer, I'll be the first in line to buy and install them, but if that's the case, why hasn't Transport Canada and the T.S.B. said so already??????

(there will probably be an AD coming out soon regarding these I'm sure!!!)


One thing is for sure, the habs are going to have a healthy supply of belts for sweatbands soon :D:D:D

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Do you think that if the two mods are incorporated TC will ditch the AD?

I haven't seen any documentation from TC regarding the results of the hydraulic problems investigation. Lets see proof that there is a definable problem and that these mods. once incoporated are the solution.

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First of all, the 'green' belts do break, our company had a hydraulic failure just last week due to failed belt!


Second of all, what do you mean by "flipping upside down"? I was doing 'hydraulic off' training this weekend and we didn't flip anywhere?!?


Lets get over the fact, there will be not shaft driven pump for a while, live with it!


As Maggie put it, different customers require different machine specs!!

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T-REX, " Flipping upside down" meaning losing control of the A/C due to uncontrollable forces following a hydraulic failure or haven't you read the news lately. What do you think this whole hydraulic system fiasco is all about.

Of course you didn't flip upside down, it's hardly ever happened!!!!! We did a whole bunch of hydraulics off training this spring and had no problems whatsoever just like last year and the year before and like every other Astar operator in the world!! That's exactly my point !!!!!

Why are we (and the M.N.R for that matter!) focusing so much on this stupid belt when the belt isn't the problem to begin with!!! :down: :down: :down: :down:

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I have only seen one broken belt in almost 15 years.I think if people keep them clean and correctly tightened to the 103 mm .then that would help also.I see the hyd system works as the rotor spools down,so there must be sufficient flow to function the system,so Is the belt slipping??

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Thanks ####, I agree that if a modification will improve the safety of the A/C then cost shouldn't be an issue and that's exactly how we've approched our fleet since day one. I simply haven't seen any documentation that shows the Poly-v belt being any more reliable than the green belts.

As a matter of fact, I just found out 2 hrs ago about a Poly-v belt failing on a newer Astar, so how much of an improvement can they be????

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