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Nomex, I don't see where you got yourself into trouble here, Like CM says, it's good clean dialogue. You always post the straight hard facts in a professional manner.

Published rates are one thing, what a company discounts to get work is another. I know that the operator in question has high published rates, but have decided to use an extreme low-ball rate to obtain this work. Will they make money on a 206 priced in the mid to high 500's? perhaps they will meet their costs, itf their crews don't break anything or incur any unscheduled maintenance.

What I see that it is doing is going against the efforts of other reputable operators (one of which lost the work because they wouldn't play the low-ball game) to raise rates to an acceptable level.

Unfortunately, I have worked for this operator in question, and one of their main tools in marketing was and is still the low-ball approach.

 

Please stick around Nomex, I'll back you up...if you need it :D

 

PS I WAS flying for a very good rate when you last saw me .....

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T-rex, sorry, was that a shot at me ?? I don't understand why ?? I don't know you or who you work for, and made no reference to you or anything you posted.

 

The Non-Rev Ferry topic was not posted by me. I just commented on it.

I'm glad to hear everyone got paid, but were minimums charged on that job ?? If so, why was the pilot complaining about only flying .6 per day ?? Was the company only getting paid .6 per day ??

 

I would like to keep this topic positive and light (that's why I add the silly photos), but it's hard to do when the topic is about 206s going for less than $600 per hour.

 

Your comment about approaching fires is welcome and interesting. I like fire season too.

But why do we get so anxious for fire season??

Is it because some companies finally get paid minimums and a reasonable tariff.

Is it because some companies had put all their hopes in just one sector (i.e. seismic, or logging) and then get hurt when the economy changes ??

Or is it because we just like the camp food ??

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Just back from the blue skies - sorry to get anyone going, meant things in good humour, was just going to move over and let some other thoughts be posted - OK, you can't get rid of me that easy Blackmac, so here goes another shot.

 

CM & 407D, you laid out an accurate overview of the problem, agree also with posting salarys/contractors rates. Maybe if Kyle has some format similar to the forum polls, which may encourage everyone here to post their salary's with even more anonymity than we get just with our handles, we may be able to get a useful cross section of the industry. There would always be wild cards involved in such salary summaries, such as benefits, working environment, length of tours, how you are treated, etc that all have a real effect on the bottom line, which would be missing, but I think it still would be useful and interesting for everyone.

 

As for rates, I was thinking during the day, the only market that gets full tariff is training - no discounts there - I don't know what the charter rates are for the 22's etc but I would imagine that the student pays full tariff, does he not (I realize he does have an instructor on board and there are other benefits) but there never seems to be much variance in the rates charged for a specific type of trainer from one company to another. The only difference is what the company can offer the student (customer), such as reputation, clean machines, job prospects, quality of instructor, etc. Sounds like an ideal world for the general charter operators - everyone charges the same hourly tariff and get customers with the these other benefits the company can offer.

 

What's that John Lennon song again..."Imagine" - am I dating myself?

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Fires? and Fire Season?

 

I just enjoy the stories on here. Everyone seems like they are in a much better mood in here.(My stash of prozac is running out for the year) Yes, 407, the boiled pork chops and warm 'fresh' fruit with unlimited supply of Gatorade!! Yummy!

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I would simply like to know why our industry lets the customer tell us what they are going to pay for our service. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around???

When you need a plumber, you don't get to tell him how much you will pay him for fixing the leak? If you go to a restaurant do you don't get to tell the waiter that you will only pay 60% of the posted price on the menu for that burger? Why does forestry get to tell us how much they will pay us for our services?? Is it just me or is there something wrong with this picture?????

 

When are we going to start dictating what an acceptable price per hour should be instead of letting forestry set the bar for us??? It's like that stupid Visa comercial where the custormer stands up and pays for his meal by singing a song.

All together now. 1, 2, 3........

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Jetbox, excellent point about the plumber. Our furnace broke down this winter, and we called a guy to come fix it. It was -25º that night, so waiting until morning was not an option. We paid $485 to have a $19 ignitor installed in the furnace, something a monkey, even Cyclic Monkey, could have done. There was no discussion as to ferry time from his house, or back, or minimums, it was $485 please. Now.

 

Boiled pork chops. Mmmmm. They're even better if you have to pay $60 each for them, in Coral Harbour. With no beer to wash them down.

 

When I was with that helicopter manufacturer (who will remain nameless because I don't want to start another fight), I did a customer acceptance on a light, FADEC 4-bladed rotorcraft (cleverly disguised so you won't REALLY know what machine it was) with a European customer.

 

My recent background at that time was with a large company (that will remain nameless but my flight suit had a large red crow on it), and all I ever flew with them were machines older than me and rebuilt wrecks.

 

So I asked him how it was that they could afford a new fleet of four-bladed rocket-powered air machines (they had bought a bunch). He said they got (in 1997) over $1700US / hour for the 407.

 

Our industry needs to quit eating its young and charge what these things are worth, and start paying the meat servos, wrench benders and spark farmers a wage that reflects the responsibility they carry.

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