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Tsb Report: Aug 2008 B206l Crash Near Terrace

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I tried to talk a former chief engineer into having them installed...his line...we will be out of business in a week if we install them.... :rolleyes:

This seems to indicate that expediency wins over professionalism. This doesn't always have to be the case. I remember a float plane company in the north that had a scale on the dock and weighed everything, presumably to stay within gross limits. It worked for them but I'll bet they had to (repeatedly) explain to the customers why it was a good idea.


I'd be fine with a recording TQ gauge as long as I had an external gauge to watch during the critical points in the lift.


Are there many (any?) of these gauges (TQ) in use?


Cheers . . . .


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USFS makes crews do load calculations based on temps and altitudes and then takes a weight deduction for safety. Its 290 lbs for a 212 and they do not change that for an 212HP.

So the USFS mandates using the HOGE/HIGE charts PLUS a safety margin. I wonder where the BCFS is on this?


Cheers . . . . .

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CMJ91 ............ just in case you are unaware and/or do not understand completely, you should keep the following in mind regarding the type of questions that you have started to ask.


(1) There is no comparative agency in Canada to US Forest Service. That agency is 100% Federal and is part of the US Dept. of The Interior which is itself HQ'd in Washington, DC with all the expected powers to go with. The operational HQ for the USFS is Boise, ID, but they do not rule unto themselves totally. Various States have the financial wherewithall to hire their own firefighting a/c and they are hired under the rules of that particular given State. On the other hand there are other States who couldn't afford toilet paper for the outhouses on a forest fire and they just make that call to Boise if they have a forest fire. ONCE that State asks for Federal aid, then the rules of the USFS in Boise come into play and the State's rules take second place. All orders eminating from Boise automatically surplant any rules comong from the State with due regard for th politics of the situation. The only Canadian agency that can compare in any way is the Canadian Interagency Fire Center in Winnipeg which handles requests for a/c Canadawide. They can only dream about having the Federal powers and budgets that the USFS has. It may happen at some point down the road, but right now, don't compare the two agencies in ANY way. Maybe some day Canada will have a similar agency that has the power to make all Provinces and Territories operate using common rules, training and equipment, but don't hold your breath on that just yet.


(2) Another example not widely known. The State of Washington may request and get a single-engined Bell 205 from a given operator, Canada or the US. This is not a problem for them because they operate their own State-owned ex-military 205 anyway. Should their given fire escalate to the point where they need and ask USFS help, then the rules of the USFS will see all single-engined Medium and larger R/W released from service. At best, some will be kept for various duties not requiring the transportation of bodies. This rule of the USFS concerning single-engined R/W was put in place by them a long time ago because they felt (based on some accidents) two engines to be safer than one. This is undoubtedly true in practically all F/W, but until they eliminate something named the "Combining Gearbox" in the 212 and certain other multi-engined R/W a/c, it means with failure of that C-Box you just get to 'coast' a little farther until you do your auto just like the venerable old 205.

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.....some minor corrections.

The fixed weight reduction (fudge factor) to be subtracted from Bell 212 calculations is 390 lbs.


The USFS is a division of the Department of Agriculture.


A lot of other Federal land is controlled by the Bureau of Land Management, which is a division of the Department of the Interior.

National Parks are Federal also, but administered by the National Park Service.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the US Fish and Wildlife Service also have control over some fire-fighting duties.

State forests are administered and protected by individual State authorities.

.........(oh my Gawd, confused yet??)


When aircraft that are owned or hired by different authorities combine to work on a fire in the US, they are expected to follow the Interagency Helicopter Operating Guidelines (IHOG).

This is a manual that was put together by representatives of all the above mentioned organisations. However they are only guidelines, and they may be outweighed by a jurisdiction's Regulations.


If the jurisdiction that owns the burning trees/land has stricter Regulations than those of the organisation supplying the helicopter, then the tree/land owners rules shall be used.


A Load Calculation (form OAS-67) and cargo/passenger manifest (form HCM-9) is to be prepared for each flight in the US.

A lot of this paperwork is done by the helicopter crew/manager that accompanies the helicopter in the US.


Several Canadian provinces have had books to record and calculate helicopter loads for many years. But they are rarely used.

Just like performance charts, load scales, in-dash torque gauges, AND external gauges.....

they are all no use if the pilot doesn't look at them !!

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