Bell407 Vs 350b2

[pilot5]

Ok that's interesting on the FX2. A few questions.

 

1. What the purchase cost of a zero time FX2?

 

2. Direct operating cost per hour, just the helicopter with fuel, no insurance?

 

3. What is the difference between the FX and the FX2?

 

4. Who sells them.

 

5. Does the FX2 use a B2 bucket.

 

 

Thanks for all this great information..So much to consider.

 

 

[helidom]

The tail rotor gearbox is the only component affected by the FX2 conversion. It adopts the AS355N/B3 limitations. Eurocopter will not exchange FX components with non FX components but they will overhaul them just the same.

 

Agreed on the tail gearbox. But when Eurocopter overhauls FX2 components, they are stamped with a different part number which makes them no longer compatible with B2/SD2's. This is done to waive any liability as they consider the FX2 a variant which deviates from the type design. This is the reason you now have to sign a waiver stating that the components you send for overhaul have not been fitted to an FX!

 

[helidom]

Ok that's interesting on the FX2. A few questions.

 

1. What the purchase cost of a zero time FX2?

 

2. Direct operating cost per hour, just the helicopter with fuel, no insurance?

 

3. What is the difference between the FX and the FX2?

 

4. Who sells them.

 

5. Does the FX2 use a B2 bucket.

 

 

Thanks for all this great information..So much to consider.

 

Pilot5, you should find most of the answers here. http://www.helilynx.com

In terms of price, it's anyones guess with the current market but very close to B2 prices.

Cheers

 

[widgeon]

Pilot5, you should find most of the answers here. http://www.helilynx.com

In terms of price, it's anyones guess with the current market but very close to B2 prices.

Cheers

Diffrence between Fx1 and Fx2 about 100 Shp.

See HL site for more detail.

 

[helidude]

How come I can't quote like everyone else dammit!!!!

 

Agreed on the tail gearbox. But when Eurocopter overhauls FX2 components, they are stamped with a different part number which makes them no longer compatible with B2/SD2's. This is done to waive any liability as they consider the FX2 a variant which deviates from the type design. This is the reason you now have to sign a waiver stating that the components you send for overhaul have not been fitted to an FX!/quote]

 

I think you're wrong regarding Eurocopter stamping different part numbers on the gearboxes. Those are your componants, not theirs. Unless the parts are worn, damaged or time expired, they have to return them to you in the same condition they received them. We had an FX2 Tail rotor gearbox overhauled at Eurocopter and it came back with the same part number. As a matter of fact, you would never know it was installed on an FX Astar if the log card wasn't noted as such. The owners of the aircraft are the ones responsible to annotate the component log cards, not Eurocopter.

 

 

 

[helidom]

You may be correct Helidude. I am only going by what I was told by Eurocopter Canada and what we were instructed when I worked previously at two other Eurocopter subsidiaries.

 

This is entirely political in my opinion, as there are no such stupulations on the SD2. Eurocopter and Heli-Lynx aren't exactly on the best of terms.

[WTF_was_that]

An FX2 uses a b3 tailrotor, without a reduction in overhaul/inspection time. So heli-lynx bolts a bigger tail rotor on a b2 and doens't change any inspection schedule. And you wonder why the manufacture wants nothing to do with it.

 

A Super B2/D2, from soloy is an engine transplant. It uses the same performance charts, there's just a small supplement for the engine.

 

Also note an fx2 requires an anti-ice valve (always broken) for flight in moisture below 5C. A Super B2/D2 with the same engine does not have an anti-ice valve. and no restriction.

 

Heli-lynx builds bast*rd aircraft, that the manufacture wants nothing to do with.....

 

 

Does a Super B2/D2 out perform a B2. The answer is NO. Its about the same. Usually not because of the poor govenor. It always needs adjusting to maintain rotor rpm. If the temp, altitude or humidity change you've got rotor rpm issues. If your not moving bags or drills you would problably never notice.

 

Does the FX2 out perform a B2. Above 7000ft it can. But not by much, not enought to market, like they do. Still the same govenor RPM issues.

 

 

The US coast Gaurd is removing all 700 lycoming engines from there Dolphin fleet, Because of poor reliablity.

 

 

my 2cents of personal experience with the Bast*rd child's.

[Zazu]

An FX2 uses a b3 tailrotor, without a reduction in overhaul/inspection time. So heli-lynx bolts a bigger tail rotor on a b2 and doens't change any inspection schedule. And you wonder why the manufacture wants nothing to do with it.

 

A Super B2/D2, from soloy is an engine transplant. It uses the same performance charts, there's just a small supplement for the engine.

 

Also note an fx2 requires an anti-ice valve (always broken) for flight in moisture below 5C. A Super B2/D2 with the same engine does not have an anti-ice valve. and no restriction.

 

Heli-lynx builds bast*rd aircraft, that the manufacture wants nothing to do with.....

 

 

Does a Super B2/D2 out perform a B2. The answer is NO. Its about the same. Usually not because of the poor govenor. It always needs adjusting to maintain rotor rpm. If the temp, altitude or humidity change you've got rotor rpm issues. If your not moving bags or drills you would problably never notice.

 

Does the FX2 out perform a B2. Above 7000ft it can. But not by much, not enought to market, like they do. Still the same govenor RPM issues.

 

 

The US coast Gaurd is removing all 700 lycoming engines from there Dolphin fleet, Because of poor reliablity.

 

 

my 2cents of personal experience with the Bast*rd child's.

 

And I will provide a different point of view as I fly them regularly ie FX2 and B2 and D. Please note I just fly them, I don't fix em, and I don't have my hands on the chequebook either

 

1) Don't know much about the T/R issue except it works and there are no more AD's. It's been certified and that works for me. All I know is that the A-Star (from the B up to B3 ) has essentially the same airframe (please don't get too picky)...and the FX2 lifts less than the B3. What's the problem?

 

2) Does an FX2 outperform a B2? In my experience I would have to say yes. That would be 3 FX2's and 1 B2 (with 2 different engines) To be fair I fly mostly on the flats but the times I have been up high 7000 DA + I have found the FX2 far more powerful (that would be Blaremore by the way)...and on the flats I have found that there is absolutely no comparison in lift capability if for no other reason that you are TQ limited only (Same bucket, same temp, same alt...FX2 got out where B2 was NG'd out)

 

3) I acknowledge the RPM issue, especially up north where there can be a 15-20 C temp change during the shoulder seasons, but have learned to compensate by flying a little like a 206 from time to time. But also note that the RPM gauge on our FX2's are those crappy single needle variants and I have to admit they really suck for accuracy. I have found that anytime the RPM hits 395,6,7 it's usually my bum telling me to look at the gauge. Have compared gauges with actual strobed RPM and half the time it's the gauge. I move drills but not bags.

 

3)The 700's, like any other Lycoming can leak....no argument there. But at least if your deck hasn't turned into a giant puddle there usually isn't a problem and will make the next inspection. It isn't as pretty as an Arial but I still like her. Disclaimer: Always talk to your engineer.

 

4)One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this comparison is the electrical system. I have yet to have an electrical problem of any kind in the FX2. No more contact problems on the panel, no more fuses, no more broken relays or crappy z card ghosts. And when half the time you're flying around the country without an engineer, let me tell you this is a BIG, BIG, HUGE plus!!!

 

5) FX2's are FAST...period (Not 407 fast though). Reccomend you get a big Dart Ski Basket and Squirel Cheeks to compensate

 

6) Never had the anti-ice valve break while I've been flying them. Will have to check with DOM...although having said that I'm still trying to figure out why there is one in the first place...anybody? And yes I do use it as per the POH. At least they rounded it off to 5 C

 

7) I don't work for the Coast Guard so I have no comment.

 

8) I have to admit though that the position of the EOS switch is a little weird. Don't like that thing at all. Is there one in the Soloy Conversion?

 

Again these are just my observations and opinions from the Line. Besides I wouldn't want the "Buy Bell" crowd to think there was dissention in the ranks!

[Murdoch]

...

 

8) I have to admit though that the position of the EOS switch is a little weird. Don't like that thing at all. Is there one in the Soloy Conversion?

 

...

 

I'm guessing you're referring to the EOS test switch. From what I remember, yes, the Soloy conversion does have one if you get the 700 series engine (aka gold package?).

If I remember correctly it was a safety covered toggle switch mounted right where the panel and centre consol meet, so right near your left knee.

 

What don't you like about it? Where was it mounted for yours?

[WTF_was_that]

Had one machine converted by Soloy, they mounted the engine kill switch, aka "EOS" on left side bottom of the dash. Next to where a passengers knee could hit it. It was later moved to a better location. I call it the kill switch since thats what it does most of the time. Hold the switch to long and the engine flames out, to short and a flame out.