Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
WTF_was_that

Don't Try This At Home Kids

Recommended Posts

There are no regulations that require guests to have headsets.

I don't believe that pilots must be able to communicate with passengers during flight, though I may be wrong.

They must have had a pre-flight briefing, and cabin-safety cards must be located near their seats.

The CARs say that passengers must be briefed on certain situations during flight, such as turbulence, however, I interpret that this information could be communicated before take-off.

 

 

I don't know any experienced heli-ski pilots that practice doing rate-one turns or other evasive manuevers.

All the experienced heli-ski pilots I know are trained in, and regularly practice avoidance manuevers.

If you think a heli-ski pilot can fly into a cloud and then recover by trying to "fly at least a little bit on instruments or do a rate one turn", I suggest you get a job as a ski guide !!!!

 

And, as for the idea that "you can always stop and turn right around"...........?????!!!!!

My Gawd, it's obvious you don't fly a 212 on heli-ski operations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.....and because I wasn't flying the 500 in the Austrian clip, I was able to watch the artificial horizon. He wasn't "inverted" !!!

 

.....and because the camera wasn't looking out the pilot's side window, how can you judge that he was "blind" ?

 

We seem to have a few hyper-critical posters here commenting on various video clips.

Those comments show that these posters have little winter/mountain flight experience.

 

Mountain flying in the winter is difficult and isn't always pretty.

But it can be done safely and in compliance with Air Regulations.

And the pilot should never be judged by someone watching a partial video !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.....and because I wasn't flying the 500 in the Austrian clip, I was able to watch the artificial horizon. He wasn't "inverted" !!!

 

.....and because the camera wasn't looking out the pilot's side window, how can you judge that he was "blind" ?

 

Kind of what I was thinking.

 

And the pilot should never be judged by someone watching a partial video !!

 

I think you meant most of the times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

remember too most camera's compensate for exposure + or - depending on how bright it is out...especially the first video with bright blue above the cloud bank and dark ground below it. The result we see on screen is much different then what the human eye can process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE; "don't you think that having the ability to hold your machine straight and level if you happen to pass through some cloud has some value?"

 

NO, I don't......(even as I go through my 14th winter of heli-skiing!!)

 

Did you "pass through" the cloud? If so, no sweat, I hope you learned from that.

 

If you 'entered' cloud, holding the aircraft "straight and level" in the terrain depicted in these videos will have disastrous results. Usually the machine will turn upside-down and fall apart before it hits anything. If the pilot is proficient enough to hold it "straight and level", he will hit something very hard before too long. The hard things (mountains) don't show-up on the instruments that the pilot is concentrating on.

 

In winter/mountain flying you will brush against cloud. That's the nature of dealing with a nebulous substance such as cloud.

If you enter cloud, you made a error in judgement. Do not revert to instruments.

Leave that to the IFR guys that fly to the rigs in the North Sea.

Do a VFR manuever, such as a sharp descending turn, using the side window for visual reference.

602.115 No person shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight within uncontrolled airspace unless

(a) the aircraft is operated with visual reference to the surface;

 

If you went into cloud deeper than that, and have no side-reference left, you made a serious error in judgement.

Don't worry, it's probably the last time you will do it.......(maybe you'll survive to learn from it).

 

Since I learned to fly, the MOT has required several hours of instrument training to be included in the student pilot syllabus. I feel this leads to a false sense of security that can lead to horrible results if young pilots try to use those skills as a 'recovery' technique.

 

I would prefer to see the instructor smack the student on the head with an 'Instrument Flying Manual' and say clearly, "Don't fly into cloud!!!!"

This should be repeated for 10 hours, or whatever the MOT requires.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.....and because I wasn't flying the 500 in the Austrian clip, I was able to watch the artificial horizon. He wasn't "inverted" !!!

 

.....and because the camera wasn't looking out the pilot's side window, how can you judge that he was "blind" ?

 

We seem to have a few hyper-critical posters here commenting on various video clips.

Those comments show that these posters have little winter/mountain flight experience.

 

Mountain flying in the winter is difficult and isn't always pretty.

But it can be done safely and in compliance with Air Regulations.

And the pilot should never be judged by someone watching a partial video !!

OT what you said is right, but don't get to fast on the horse here, the only "hyper critical, rite something too long" person here his probably Mr L3.

I'm not against "Really big ballS" maneuvers like this, the only things i can say is that i'm not quit ready to do that.

That kinda of ops to me are fairly close to the edge of that small little envelope we got to work with, only experience pilot should go there, but it still amazingly close in that vid! don't you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

L3 DRIVER

"I think it's better to plan for the worst and your fly your best than not have a plan and fly on the premise that if you enter cloud that you made a serious error in judgment and not have the skill or wherewithal to come out of it alive. I always think that more knowledge is better than less and having the capability to do your mentioned steep descending turn while using the DG and the airspeed indicator and the artificial horizon make the maneuver a lot safer. Sure you are supposed to keep visual reference but what if you loose it? then for the 4 seconds it takes to make that turn and drop 150 feet you are in control of rate of turn, rate of decent, speed and roll/pitch, all good stuff.

I am always eager to listen to any advice (like the flying into cloud story by that ski pilot) and welcome any comments and experiences you have and would like to share. I don't think we need to debate that it is unwise to fly into cloud when VFR, you're kind of "preaching to the choir" don't you think? I am more interested in hearing about how to get out of it if one does find one's self in such a situation."

 

I don't usually post here anymore because of the sometimes irrational responses that come back but I will take a stab once again just for the heck of it and, (I am a slow learner) I don't have a lot to do right at this moment.

 

This is no criticism or finding fault with what anyone in this thread has said... Its just my opinion after 30 years of helicopters, flying light, medium and heavy helicopters on the coast and in the mountains in Canada and many parts of the world VFR and IFR. Don't want to be labled a pontificator!!!! Had to look it up :rolleyes:

 

From my point of view I really don't see a lot wrong with either video. The first one in the astar is normal op's. Second video is done for show and with all the blue around I would bet if the camera was pointed a little to the right you would be staring at blue sky and the pilot could see just fine out his door.

 

As for L3drivers comment about 4sec it take to turn and loose 150' after inadvertent IFR.. I know from lots of experience in that area that its just not that easy. Having been an IFR training pilot for many years I have (during training) put some reasonably experienced IFR pilots in the position of going on to the dials inadvertently in anything but straight and level flight and spent the next 10 to 15 seconds practicing my "recovery from unusual attitudes" techniques! I would say it takes the average pilot 5 to 10 seconds to fully comprehend and convince themselves of the fact that they are not VFR any more and then an additional couple of seconds to even find the instruments they need to look at to see which way is up while keeping Nr and airspeed under control. If the aircraft is descending (or climbing) and turning when this happens it can be frightful how quickly things go to "**** in a hand basket"

 

One other thing to keep in mind (once again from experience) is many times what you think you can expect on the other side of that little fog bank or layer is completely opposite to what is actually there. I have been on approach to a well lit runway and see everything just fine at 500' and passing though 250' gone completely IMC almost to the ground. Ask any offshore driver about flying to the rig looking down to see the deck just fine and loose all reference at 150' half mile to the deck......Looking up and seeing the sun through that little thin layer!!! Not a good plan!. On more than one occasion I've spent 3 or 4 minutes climbing at 1000'/min to pop out the top of a layer I thought was 500' or so thick... Not a good plan in your jetbox with a suspect artificial horizon that they all seem to have. (Before you jump on me about that... I've been flying IFR since 1986 and always with and aircraft capable of the above mentioned maneuver... well almost ;) )

 

Just remember as you say "use a rate one turn" that, that turn of 180deg is going to take one minute. Any climb or decent during that turn will really put the "zap" in your head. Plus any time required to fly straight and level until you return to a point where you can trust you senses again. It can be a difficult maneuver at the best of times unless you are fully prepared for it.

 

If you are asking for my advice on messing with that little bit of schmoo in the valley that you are trying to get though..... be very careful. At some point in your career it will bite you in the ***. There is a reason they call them "sucker holes".

 

Once again the above is just one guy's point of view... no criticism is intended.

 

Sorry for the length. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...