Canadian Helicopters Medics Unionize

[jetbox]

I said it before and I'll say it again, there's no point in pilots and engineers forming or joining unions until some sort of regulation forces the operators to increase their hourly rates to a realistic level. We can't pay high salaries, give awsome benefits, buy new helicopters every five years as long as the friggin rates are so low!!!

 

Blacmac, there's usually nothing wrong with what you say in your posts, it's the way you say it man!!! Nobody wants you to compromise or apologize, just lighten up a tad will ya ?!?

[Blackmac]

JetBox: With no disrespect, I've listened to the same BS before de-regulation and since.

 

So what is the answer????

 

The owners are there own worst enemy and that hasn't changed since the sixties.

 

What purpose does HAC serve other than a place that every one can complain to one another.

 

The purpose of HEPAC is well stated in the preamble.

 

Nobody is expecting that HEPAC is the answer to everything or that changes will happen overnight, everything takes time.

 

The operators with their "beancounter" attitude screwed things up, maybe an association with balls can bring things to a stage that makes sence.

 

Who are the best marketing people that any company has, the people in the field doing the job and that will never change.

 

Why are operators in the US getting more money/hour.??????

 

Why do you think CHC sold over half it's interest in light helicopters in Canada??????

 

Why is HAC as an association not taking a more aggresive approach to educate the end user's to the reality of the cost of operating helicopters and the welfare of people employed in the industry???????.

 

And on and on.

 

Cheers,Don

[PIC]

I am not interested in getting into a verbal abuse contest or the like with you Don. And I am also not interested in your position or your association. Thanks anyway. That’s my choice and I wish you all the best in your effort with HEPAC.

 

I have no major beef with this industry – if I did, I would choose to do something else for a living. But if people are unhappy and wish to do something about it, well then the better for them. Don’t let me stop anyone!

 

As jetbox said, maybe just try to go easy and remember that as the voice of HEPAC, you are supposed to be the representative for the rest of the gang (and it doesn’t mean that you have to kiss a?s either).

[Blackmac]

PIC: I have no intention of getting into a pi//ing contest with you or anybody else.

 

I'm just getting tired of listening to the same old and might add that my postings are on a positive note. I am only trying to create an atmosphere that will possibly make people think as group other than sitting in the corner sucking there thumb and thinking how they are so hard done by.

 

Have you ever really thought of what an association can do from a social and economic piont of vue for the industry.

 

How do you think HAI was formed?????

 

What would be wrong with Canadian version of HAI????

 

It can happen if people would only get together.

 

Or maybe HAC is the answer, I thought it was when it first came out.

 

Would you not like to have a say in your future endeavours????

 

Please do not come back with the same old " I would join except for you know who is the spokes person for HEPAC " , he can be replaced, gladly, at any time.

 

 

Cheers, Don and quit sucking your thumb, it's bad for your front teeth.

 

PS: If anybody wishes to take over HEPAC, let me know, as I am retired from the industry and nobody seems to care one way or the other what happens and continue to be led around by the nose, you can have it for nothing. My contribution to the industry.

[DecuMajor]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight............................

 

So once again a thread appears to be on the verge of hijack.

 

But before it does, does anyone with something RELATED to this thread know what, or if, the pilots at CHL EMS have commented on the meddies unionizing???

 

And everybody....................................stop sucking your thumb.

[saturnman]

As an active CHL EMS Pilot, I know that many of my colleagues are in Wait Mode. Some of the most significant issues that led to the Medics organizing are the same for the pilots. So we are essentially waiting to see what happens with the first collective agreement.

 

The Pres, Exec VP, Sr Ops Manager and VP HR have visited ALL the EMS bases over the past 3 months. mostly as a reaction to the Union. Some of the biggest issues for us are:

 

1) Being able to claim on our Crew Position Reports 11.4 hrs for a shift instead of 12 hrs;

 

2) For Kenora and Moosonee, the entire issue of non-paid stat holidays, no vacation, and working towards a "threshold" of 2080 hrs in a work year;

 

3) For 1/2 the bases, the company is bound by contract to provide helmets to pilots and medics and do so free of charge; for the rest of us it is a 50% subsidy;

 

4) Claiming expenses while overnighting after dutying out from a late call;

 

5) The near complete lack of management training for our "pilot managers"; and the nepotism involved in hiring, promotion and scheduling.

 

I hate being nickled and dimed; and some days I am on the verge of leaving. Personally, I am not in a position to the the lead mouthpiece for the rest of the EMS pilots; (tried that once before and got very burned!)

 

There are so many low time, Co-pilots in the system, that they are just happy to be flying the '76 and many long-in-the-tooth senior guys who are at the top of the pay scale who just won't participate in organizing the workplace for the good of all; so frankly I am not hopeful. Although, it really depends on what the medics get.

 

Cheers

[WTF]

JAFO,

 

what does that stand for? Just Another First Officer?

 

Not quite right. How do you suppose CHL could employ a foreign worker and pay him less than a Canadian? The foreign worker has to be approved by HRDC and the company is responsible for that person for at least 2yrs. There are a couple of Aussies (good guys, great pilots) working for the company, along with a bunch of russians and europeans who go to the places that the Canadians will not go. IE: Moose.

Don't go being an #########. Prove your comments.

 

The difference between a Captain and Copilot hourly rate is only a couple of dollars. The main difference is the IFR allowance and the fact that the Captain is ultimately responsible. If a 500hrs copilot or a 5000hrs copilot could do the job, they would have the position. Frankly, nobody is going to give you a mulit-engine aircraft without any time in it. Just because you have 5000hrs doesn't mean that you can actually pilot an aircraft.

 

I know Saturnman works for them and he can confirm that the ability level of the copilots is pretty average. The good ones don't stay long. Also I understand that only the medics in Toronto and Ottawa get helmets paid for. The rest including the pilots everywhere get 50%.

 

What is the raw deal that the cojoes get? Take a look aroud the planet and see that the wage is exactly the same everywhere, AND, if CHL were not employing you....who would? Maybe Helijet maybe out east? And what's the turnover there??

 

Here are some facts:

 

CHC International: Offshore experience + 500hrs ON TYPE

CHC Africa: Aircraft endorsement + 50hrs on type (regardless of previous twin exp??)

CHC Aberdeen: 60000 pound JAA licence. IFR, Frozen ATPL, NVFR.

Bristows: 500hrs on type. Under 30yrs of age. Everything above....

Llyods-CHC Australia: At least 1000hrs command. NVFR.

Schreiners: Now CHC International

UAE Operators: previous IFR and offshore and multi experience.

 

CHL EMS: 500hrs command on anything plus your IFR and Exams....#### get a grip.

Most of the 500hr wonders have lied about those 500hrs as well.

 

Good luck with your attitude. Watch the racist slander. Those aussies are my friends and not friendly to ##### like you.

[RDM]

WTF,

 

Please do not compare out east first officers to anyone else in the country. I happen to be very proud of the fact that the organization I work for pay there FO's better then a IFR Captain out West.

[Guest graunch1]

What if you replaced the term Medic with the term AME? They train for 2 years prior to working on the patient and must work for 2 more years prior to being certified, they must stay current on all ailments. Their skill level includes controlling body fluids; skeleton and skin ailments; transplants and brain surgery - a little more expertise I would think than the average medic.

 

What are their wages???????

[saturnman]

For the medics, as a Primary Care medic, they have to take 2 years in a community college, then write the appropriate exams for the jurisdiction in which they are working. For Advanced Care medics, usually there is a requirement for a certain amount of time working land, followed by an OJT / Clinical training course (which is subsidised by CHL) and paid wages by CHL. The Critical Care medics are pretty experienced medics that have a scope of practice that would put many doctors to shame.

 

The issue of pilots vs medics wages boils down to one thing: We can service this contract with 0, 1 or 2 medics but cannot fly on the contract with only one pilot or without an AME available. The medics really have taken over the agenda of the division to the detriment of the pilots and the engineers, who until recently, have really been treated as 3rd class employees. But the pilots and engineers are pretty much people who will go the extra mile to keep the aircraft in the air. One example, in my experience, a medic will not think twice about calling in sick and forcing a down-staffing penalty whereas for a pilot or AME to do the same, they would have to be (and have been) pretty sick before doing the same thing. One other thing is mobility. Many of the medics have the capacity to get work elsewhere the same day they leave CHL without uprooting families or touring or whatever. The same cannot be said for pilots/AMEs based in, say, Kenora.

 

Many of us are frustrated by the company being "hijacked" by the medic's agenda; so are now sitting back to ride their coattails re increased bennies post CAW contract.

 

As far as the "foreigners", many of them have gotten jobs with CHL EMS at the bottom of the pay scale, only because that is what they were offered and they were happier to get the job than to negotiate a better deal.