Canadian Helicopters Medics Unionize

[Blackmac]

Hello again Don, yes, we meet again.

 

I'll write a longer answer this time. Usually I'm trying to minimize my time on the computer here.

 

Regarding my point #2, you indicated the problem with the thumbs-down after your comment that Ontario money was going to Quebec. That is what I was referring to.

 

As I said about CHL ownership, my info is just memory and quite dated.

 

With regard to point #4, you talked about owners sanctioning unions:

 

I was responding directly to your comments.

 

The last comment I was referring to was when you suggested that you should accompany the CAW rep. Long back in the HEPAC discussions on this site it was stated, I had thought by you, that HEPAC is not a union, has no union interests, and merely wants to help better the situation of helicopter industry professionals. If so, why on earth would you be touring (wanting to tour) with a CAW rep? That comment, to me, appeared to fly in the face of what HEPAC was supposed to be.

 

You are right, I often don't get answered here, but no matter.

 

One of the reasons I continue to spar with you on this forum, Don, is that you have chosen to organize an association (HEPAC) with some lofty goals (goals I generally agree with) and have often associated your name with HEPAC. I am well aware that your experience in the business exceeds mine and that you have willingly invested your time in this effort with no compensation. This is commendable. On the other hand, I believe that many of the ideas that you are supporting through HEPAC are inappropriate and I will continue to debate them with you. I'll do this because I'm still under the impression that an opposing viewpoint is still needed to refine things.

 

 

 

HeloTeacher: It's refreshing to meet somebody with a positive attitude and is prepared tp defend it in a logical manner.

 

My reference to the FTQ sanctioning the CAW was that the FTQ is a union and one that is very powerfull in James Bay.

 

How many non-Quebec companies have contracts in that area?????

 

How many non-Quebec companies get fire contracts, unless there is a flap.

 

Quebec does and has always given contracts to Quebec companies first.

 

There is an inter-provincial trade agreement in Canada, but Quebec only uses it when it serves their purpose.

 

Much the same as NAFTA, which is dominated by the US and controlled by the USA.

 

You say you find that HEPAC has lofty goals, but yet, you hesitate to join and put your comments forward in any type of forum or committee.

 

I am basically trying to get this thing of the ground with enough members to form a consensus for the Helicopter Engineers & Pilots.

 

As for following the CAW reps around, was a joke. My idea was to offer an alternative to the union.

 

Maybe I should lower the fee to $75.00 per membership, get enough members to form a board of directors, hand the whole thing over to somebody new and act as a local go between with the government. :up: :up:

 

I agree TOTALLY with BulletRemington's comments.

 

Cheers, Don

[saturnman]

Earlier in the thread someone said somthing like the EMS FO's only need 500hrs get a grip.

 

I can't speak for other locations but our FO's average over 3500hrs with anywhere from 500hrs to 1,000hrs on type. That in any part of the helicopter industry is good experience. The ACTUAL IFR may be the downside but our group of pilots IS IFR qualified and night rated, pretty much no other pilot group can say that. (exceptions obviously)

Grover:

 

I am a bit late responding to your posting. I don’t know where you are based, but a quick look through the rolls of CHL EMS will show a steadily decreasing level of experience among the copilots. Since the 2nd A/C started in Toronto, we have upgraded pretty much everybody who was qualified. I know that there are now 3 CoJos being considered for upgrade to Captains but all 3 will require waivers from the MOH because they don’t meet the minimum requirements for Captaincy. A pilot was recently released from the company because there were apparent discrepancies in his logbook re his actual flight experience. This was only discovered when he started his Captain’s upgrade process.

 

CHL EMS is not an organization that goes out of its way to empower its employees. The medics, who largely come from an organized background, have learned to empower themselves. This is the fundamental difference between the 2 groups. The Brass have visited the bases and the noise makers have been quieted. Emails regarding CPRs, Pay Scales, benefits go unanswered. Our choices: Put up or Move on.

[grover]

I'm with you Saturnman, just hope the CAW sends us cards in the mail.

 

As for the lessening experience level, maybe it's time to fight to get rid of the 500hr minimum. My understanding is that The Boss worked that into the system with the MOH to get the costs down. The claim was it wasn't an impairment to safety. Well I think it is and perhapes the medics will use that 500hr minimum during their negotiations???

 

####: I don't see a line waiting at the door to get in. Maybe there is, but I don't see it..

[LDP]

Mag

The line depends on where the spot is. Moose has been hard to fill in the past but easier now. Prefered bases (London, Ottawa, Sudbury) are usually filled by someone from another base. I dont think that they are having any difficulty filling positions as if they did you would see open shifts to be filled by other pilots . As for the 500 hr thing, That is a Ontario Govt requirement, directly out of their Standards (a small publication that the Ontario govt publishes.) I dont know how much infulence CHL (or CHC at the time of publication) had on this book. There are many more requirements in this book for all air operations that the Ontario govt undertakes. I dont know if a collective agreement will have any effect on this at all.

[grover]

I do see many weeks going by without any replacements. TONS of overtime to cover for that.

[twitch]

Just an obsevation but Saturnman is correct, the experience level is way way down. Back when I started on the ambulance in the late 80's I was the lowest time Captain with around 7000hrs. at the base I was at. The lowest time co-pilot had similar time. That meant that the mimimum time that was in the cockpit at any time was 14000hrs!!!! I think at the time I calculated that the average total time up front was 16000hrs. And all Captains had offshore time. Big difference now!!! I think the minimum time back then was around 2500hrs for a co-pilot and 5000hrs for a captain. As much as I hate to say it though, It wasn't all Rob's fault that the minimums were changed. If I remember correctly it was Big Bad Luc when he tried to bid the contract in the early to mid 90's claiming Canadian had an unfair advantage having all the high time drivers.

 

twitch

[grover]

TWITCH, WOW! what a difference time has made to the experience levels. Well, time can partially fix this as well. It's time to start lobbying (sp?) the M.O.H. to get the minimums RAISED for various reasons. What? maybe 1,000 - 1,500hrs for an FO

[bandaid]

Someone asked about our Medics training. I don't know about the rest of Canada but in B.C. you first have to work 3 years in a high volume area, write and pass a pre-entrance exam which includes a comprehensive and tough oral exam we call oskies. Then 2 years in school, (on your days off) followed by about 6 months of training for flight certification. Now if you want to specialize in Children then I believe that it would be another 8 months to 1 year of school. All of our airevacs have to go through a flight co-ordinator in Victoria and on a regular basis your calls are scutinized and you go before a panel of Doctors (who license we work under) to answer any questions that might arise.

Things are changing here in B.C. used to be that the Government paid for our training, now it is whomever comes up with the appropriate cash and passes the pre-entrance will be trained. You might find more info from www.apbc.ca or google the Brisish Columbia Ambulance service.

As a side note, I have heard a rumour from a reliable gossip that the company that is contracted to provide the aircrafts and pilots is in some financial difficulty. Hope everything works out for them.

[grover]

I and many others still think speaking with ONE collective voice will have some influence on the management

[downwash]

I'm a pilot and my daughter is an ALS (Advanced Life Support) Paramedic. The family relationship aside, I don't see myself ever being critical if she were to be paid more than me (and she's getting very close). It always smacks of rampant egos to me when we start measuring di**s to see who's 'worth' more than the next person.

 

I've always believed that, if I'm not getting what I believe I'm worth (or my contribution isn't recognized for what I believe to be its value), it's because of something I'M not doing, and it's up to ME to rectify it. I may need to rock the boat I'm in, or find another one. The end result of the kind of di** measuring espoused in the 'pilots are worth at least as much as medics' is a perpetual pi**ing contest which no-one really wins. A good dose of personal accountability serves everyone much better.

 

All that said, and despite my being strongly anti-union, I wish you folks all the best in getting to that place of being satisfied that you're getting what you're worth (as opposed to what someone else may or may not be deemed to be worth). :up: