B212 Vs. B205-a1

[HBG]

VX, you disapoint me, they must be making you soft over there, well I here you are busy my friend so that is always good, especially when you have as many mouths to feed that you do now. :up: Hey, I still have your new visor, I will be home in a couple of weeks and I will send it off to you.

 

Big Duke, I can't but smile while I right this. I thought I would try and combine drills and logging, one has to be inovative in this industry to make a go of it any more, oh well one can try I guess. Working for the farm team is great, no big expectations, no pressure. If I stepped up to the big league you would have to teach me your start technique on the 212, how does it go, plugs in, then hit starter, if no light off, try try again. I look forward to beers together, I will give you a ring on my time off and we can sit down over a bottle and hash this out the old fashion way.

 

Take care, HBG :up:

[VERTICAL X]

OUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

VX

[Big Duke 6]

MAYDAY,MAYDAY,I'am taken hits CHARLIE's everywhere. Ouchchhhhhhhhh! I'll give ya that one HBG although, I did show determination. Who knew the kindling was still in. I guess one has to remember not to get ahead of himself.

 

An old timer once told me there is only two types of pilots " those that have, and those that are about to" screw-up. I've learned that lesson the hard way. I wish you better luck.

 

Your typical Drill Pilot's first day in the 212.

[sharkbait]

Big Duke 6:

Thanks for the cartoon.

I am busy converting a guy from a VFR equiped 212 to an EFIS 76.

He is suffering TV screen fatigue big time and will surely get a good laugh out of it.

So many numbers, so many buttons, so many new procedures.

Still we are having fun! He actually seems enthusiastic - gotta give him credit - he hasn't resigned yet.

Thanks again for my chuckle of the day.

Cheers to you.

Sharkbait

 

PS Are there Big Dukes one through 5 ?

[leggo]

Once again, gentlemen, thanks for the input of your experience. Don't worry about it turning into an argument about which ship is the better, since you all argued with data, I learned!

 

Blackmac, the vast majority off our loads can indeed be broken up (fuel), the object of the exercise is indeed to find the most cost-efficient solution. I've been gathering data on an array of aircraft, but since Bell no longer build 212s or 205s, their spec sheets aren't on the Bell website, and I can't ask someone for a quick look through their POH either (we're the only helicopter operator in country). So my solution has been to pick your brains and experience. If anyone could point me to a website or similar which has some performance graphs for these a/c (HOGE and fuel burn in particular) I'd be on easy street!

 

The boss is working on the financial side of the equation, my input is what performance he can expect from each option. I suspect that if we choose to concentrate on our core earning activity, the best choice may turn out to be a Lama, old, slow and thirsty though she may be, or an AS350B2.

[Big Duke 6]

Sharkbait I'm glad somone got something poistive out of our ranting , and no there are no 1-5 dukes it was a nickname given to me while heli-skiing several years ago, and its in reference to the movie "apocolipse now" .

[4961]

Your typical Drill Pilot's first day in the 212.

Hey who you lookin at?

[DGP]

Not sure how the 407 got into this argument but here goes...if you want to sling with the 407 she will have no problem lifting 2600lbs at temps below 25 C....above this you will have to cut the weights back ....the average weight empty is around 2900-3000 lbs...driver of 200 lbs...this leaves room for 400 lbs of motion lotion to play with...straight up...up and away on a long line and I don't know about 140 kts but she will go fast....oh baby....she goes...fast!!!! :up: ....for more accurate #s get CTD in on this one. PS max gross external is 6000 lbs.Internal you can fill all the seats with 200 lbs passengers,put 850 lbs of go juice on and go straight up and away....this aint just a L with 4 blades folks.... internal gross is 5250

[VERTICAL REF]

HBG farm team my ***!!! Look at the bright side, at least you don't work for Alpine Jr.

 

 

Cap a 212 and a 205 both burn 600 to 650 lbs of fuel! No difference.

 

 

A dash 17 engine produces 1550 to 1800 shp depending on how the engine has been nozzled at engine overhaul to balance the hot and cold end. It is a trade off between N1 and EGT/MGT. Some have come off the test cell in excess of 2200shp.

 

A 205 -13 with 205 p/n blades will out work a 212 at low altitudes / low temps. (so can a 204!)

 

 

A 212 with 3's, 3B's or the HP will not out lift a 205 -17 at high altitudes, out of ground effect on a longline ever! The performance section of the flight manuals states it in black and white...

 

In ground effect, with an internal load as per the WAT chart (section one, limitations the 212 can legally carry more than a 205A or A-1. Structural considerations - therefore the reason they are used for sking. More load legally internally than a 205. Yet the 205 can go in and longline 4000 lbs right beside the skiers all with in limits.

 

(the 205B has the same internal as the 212 therefore can go sking with full passangers and full fuel - the 212 "not")

 

Leggo, around the fsj area all you would need is a 205 -13.

 

Good luck finding one, the last 205 I heard of sold for 1.9 usd. You can get a steam chicken for 1.3 to 1.4 usd. Goes to show you what airframe is in higher demand.

 

Twin engines don't mean crap when you have more than 74.3 % torque dialed in on the triple tach - Just ask Wade Ross!

 

As the Frontier boys used to say...

 

When you are bucketing with a 205 and the engine quits, you hear BANG, SPLOOSH...

 

and when your bucketing with a 212 and one engine quits you hear BANG, WHUA, WHUA, SPLOOSH...

 

The 212 is a highly overated twin. Thats why there is no IFR routes in Canada for a 212. To maintain OEI it would only be able to carry 3 to 4 people.

 

Guys fly 212's cause they can't hit the spot during autorotations!

 

 

I love flying the 212. I just hope to God when I'm on a fire a 205 does not pull up beside me...and as Vibrator and Hoagie said please don't let it be a 205B cause I'll piss my pants...!

[Harmonic_Vibe]

Wow VR! I have not seen you so worked up since you were rolling around on the dance floor in Ft. Nellie (how many were there again?).I knew somebody would have all the figures and I would have laid money down that you'd be a likely candidate. I just need to clarify one little item: The 205B has the same external as the 212, not internal. Of course they're the same for the 212 (11,200 for both) but you're limited to 10,500 inside the B.

 

HV