Spineless In Alberta

[Guest plumber]

For Plumber - Westjet's net revenue just fell to 20.2 million dollars on revenues of 570 million. Not a lot of helo companies could make the same claim.

 

As for cell phones, deregulation is letting a lot more competitors into the market which will hopefully stop the gouging that has been going on for years.

 

I guess we are doing well then as we are getting a much better rate than those posted by ASRD - then again....we refuse to work in Alberta for ASRD.

 

Point is - if all us operators got together and said to ASRD "the rate for XX machine is XX dollars", they would put forward accusations of "price fixing". Funny how that double edged sword works. Not funny how the local operators let ASRD get away with it.

 

Not alot of helo companies have that much money invested. ( compared to West jet ) No offence but your comparing apples to oranges. If you don't like the system find another avenue in the industry to make it work.

 

I agree it is B.S but try and get people in this industry to get on the same page.

 

It be like Sling putting together a complete sentence.

 

[Max Continuous]

There doesn't seem to be any shortage of B.C. operators underbidding contracts for SRD. 5 year initial attack contract ..and the winner is...Selkirk. $1200.00 for a B2. And by the fifth year it is up to $1300.00. Wow!

MPB contract ..yup B.C. again...$1039.00.

Foothills wolf cull....whoops!...B.C. operator again!

If you look at the bids you will see that spineless Alberta companies have been consistently under bid by B.C. operators.

Max

[2007]

There doesn't seem to be any shortage of B.C. operators underbidding contracts for SRD. 5 year initial attack contract ..and the winner is...Selkirk. $1200.00 for a B2. And by the fifth year it is up to $1300.00. Wow!

MPB contract ..yup B.C. again...$1039.00.

Foothills wolf cull....whoops!...B.C. operator again!

If you look at the bids you will see that spineless Alberta companies have been consistently under bid by B.C. operators.

Max

 

 

Agree with you on that one...just plain stupid.

But not the intent of the thread. More along the lines of price fixing and dictatorship.

Send her sideways like every other thread...

later

[Translation]

Agree with you on that one...just plain stupid.

But not the intent of the thread. More along the lines of price fixing and dictatorship.

Send her sideways like every other thread...

later

 

You are contradicting yourself here. ASRD gives opportunity for long term contracts, in a fair open bid process, which results in Alberta bidders not being selected. You call it stupid.

 

Short term casual hire pricing is dictated at a much higher price than above and you say its communism.

 

If short term hire pricing was not fixed , there would probably be lower prices on average, (lights and intermediates) , and more low balling would occur such as seen with previous long term work, particularly in this economy. ASRD has to have attractive rates to acquire resources, and it seems they don't have any trouble as of late. You are free to reject their business, and go to where you can get the highest rates, continent wide.

 

The disparity with fixed wing hire is confusing, but again apples and oranges, for which only the so called "communist dictator" can comment.

 

I say fix the casual hire price and let companies win work based on track record, performance and safety.

 

 

[2007]

"You are contradicting yourself here. ASRD gives opportunity for long term contracts, in a fair open bid process, which results in Alberta bidders not being selected. You call it stupid."

 

Nope...calling the lowball rates stupid. I am pretty sure ASRD has the ability to not accept the lowest bid and support their local operators.

 

"Short term casual hire pricing is dictated at a much higher price than above and you say its communism. "

 

I think "dictate" is a good choice of words.

 

"If short term hire pricing was not fixed , there would probably be lower prices on average, (lights and intermediates) , and more low balling would occur such as seen with previous long term work, particularly in this economy. ASRD has to have attractive rates to acquire resources, and it seems they don't have any trouble as of late. You are free to reject their business, and go to where you can get the highest rates, continent wide. "

 

We have rejected their business and I would urge other operators to do the same until you stop

"dictating" rates.

 

"The disparity with fixed wing hire is confusing, but again apples and oranges, for which only the so called "communist dictator" can comment."

 

Yeah your right there. Us rotary guys get confused real easy and would likely not understand the logic why fixed wing operators can set their rates.

 

"I say fix the casual hire price and let companies win work based on track record, performance and safety."

 

When has track record, performance and safety ever entered into the equation with ASRD?

They dictate prices for the busy season, then turn around in the slow season and accept rates that are at the bottom of the pile. Charlie shouldn't have bid so high with his 47.

One can only assume that they feel the dictated rates allow operators to maintain a certain level of safety and profitability. Yet they turn around and knowingly accept rates where safety and profitability are being compromised. Now that is a contradiction!

 

Like I said before, what a load of shite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Max Continuous]

If you have been in this industry for a while you will remember what a gong show it was getting hired by ASRD.

As a governing body they had to set their own rate as the alternative was to try and negotiate each individual hire. Not exactly streamlining the process when you have a fire ripping.

The rate is fair and although I do agree with you that it's a bad deal when the customer tells you what they're going to pay, we don't bat an eye when every other customer(safety dept.) pokes a finger in out chests and tells us how to conduct flight operations.

Years ago before deregulation, Transport Canada was the one who set rates. If we as an industry tried that now it would be called price fixing.

If your company won't work for ASRD because of some higher moral standing then I would suggest you check the calorie content of those morals since that's what you will be eating until this economy turns around.

Max

[koalaa119]

I have two things to add to this consideration. Firstly, ASRD gets there summer rate from us the operators. If you think it is too low for your machine it is because there are companies out there that are putting there a/c out the door on a casual hire rate lower than yours. ASRD takes a survey of published rates from my company and yours then averages them out. Our published rates are almost bang on with their casual hire rates. If it is an average obviously there will be higher rates and lower rates from companies.

 

This brings me to my second point. If companies didn't low ball then the rates would be different. If companies didn't gorge in busy summer seasons, they would be different again. According to a number of conversations that I have had with SRD higher ups they suggest that they have to take the lowest bid according to their mandates. Whether it is summer causal hires or long term contracts companies have taken advantage of SRD and screwed them over more than once and they are trying to eliminate these issues. Including the new procedure of auditing their contracts. They aren't just looking at your hobbs meter, they are requesting the log books for the a/c to confirm they aren't getting screwwed. The SRD isn't so interested in supporting the locals, because the locals have screwed them in the past and I know some that continue too.

 

I know that much of the way SRD does business I don't like, but I would suggest that much of the way they are is because of the way companies (not all I will add) have treated them. We as companies, pilots and engineers direct and move our own industry. Unfortunately much comes from the negative of the few.

 

My two cents.

 

Koala

[drkrider]

I know this has been mentioned before and I'll probably get jumped on for suggesting it, but I still believe there should be either regional minimum tariffs or a national minimum tariff. The regional would probably more practical as different areas of the country have different basic operating costs such as shipping, hangerage rates etc.

 

I doesn't matter if you lease or own your machines there's still a basic cost per hour on each aircraft type. Parts costs, wages, fuel, oil etc. are basically the same.

 

Yes I know some body going to say well some companies don't pay as much or some others etc. That's why it would have to be averaged. YES some people might make more then others at the minimum tariff, good for them profit isn't as evil as some people seem to think.

 

Here's the basic idea

 

Figure out the following average costs and add them together.

-Insurance

-Time lifed component overhaul / replacement

-Pilot wages (Salary survey?)

-Maintenance wages (Again Salary Survey?)

-Admin costs (not sure how to calculate an average on this)

-financing costs ?

-and dare I say it profit margin say 5-10% this would also help account for variations in overhead costs.

 

Now we'd all be competing with service, safety record etc. not who can cut the most corners and

not get caught.

 

DR

[Skids Up]

What's the average?

 

• Insurance - Ops with a good rate would suffer while an ops with a high rate would benefit
• Wages - hard to average for a multitude of reasons
• Admin - agreed, see above
• Maintenance - see above
• Finance cost - ops that have managed well with no debt would benefit ops with high debt would suffer
• 5 - 10 % profit - A good ops would suffer a poor ops would benefit

 

I think that if ARSD sets a rate, it should be across the board -casual, contract or whatever. Base acceptance of safety record, ops (hangar, maintenance) results of audits (3rd party requirements) etc.

 

Now, for the blast...

[Blackmac]

What's the average?

 

• Insurance - Ops with a good rate would suffer while an ops with a high rate would benefit
• Wages - hard to average for a multitude of reasons
• Admin - agreed, see above
• Maintenance - see above
• Finance cost - ops that have managed well with no debt would benefit ops with high debt would suffer
• 5 - 10 % profit - A good ops would suffer a poor ops would benefit

 

I think that if ARSD sets a rate, it should be across the board -casual, contract or whatever. Base acceptance of safety record, ops (hangar, maintenance) results of audits (3rd party requirements) etc.

 

Now, for the blast...

 

 

This actually sounds like a "Bit**ching session that should be on the "Owners Club" web page.

 

As you are all aware PILOT5 is going to remake HEPAC from an Assoc. to a UNION, how I don't know.

 

If PILOT5 is successful and all the Pilots and AME's go on strike at the beginning of May, the companies would be forced to negotiate with the UNION and all the CONTRACTORS, to accept higher wages, which will be reflected in an increase in the hourly rate. Once a UNION with BALLS gets in the act, things will change, MAYBE.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this URGENT message.

 

In the meantime take a second JOB.