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Free Flight Training For Fixed Wing Pilots

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Blackmac, I wonder if the Albatros is now the Irwing West Hotel, but I may be wrong, the Albatross may still be there on the highway...


Anywho Legends is the spot now, Reflections is OK but all the other places aren't any good anymore...


Onto the subject, then we agree to some part! Like I say, I'll always tell my prospective students and their parents that this is not a "dance on roses" and finding work is hard.


But then again, when all the old timers leave, where will all the young guys come from? And as you've probably seen, it is the ones that are willing to work, that still hangs on, the others drift away.


I feel that a school like Canadian (since that was what brought the subject up) that tell freshly graduated students from elsewhere, that they'll only hire from own graduates, if they went above their own graduates to hire someone whom they'd paid training for (Conversionists?(That's a new word!)), they are spitting their paying students in the face! But then again, that will work to other schools advantages!!



Harald :up:

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Going back in history, the industry never seams to learn anything from their mistakes or screw-ups.


The helicopter industry was bad enough prior to de-regulation and only became worse after, and that includes training.


The northern operators should never have come under de-regulation and lose their protected base status.


A northern operator payed through the nose to build an infrastructure in the north and then was undercut in rates by any joe blow from down south with less overhead, after de-reg.


De-regulation was the biggest BOONDOGGLE ever instituted by the Federal Government. :down:


It effected SAFETY, LABOUR RELATIONS, THE COST OF TRAINING and God knows what else in the name of POLITICS and Free Trade under open skies. What a laugh. :down:


The Aerspace Industry does not do any lobbying for the Charter Operators, neither does ATAC or CAMC or HAC.


Very few companies can afford operational training for new hires.


So who is left??????? :shock: :shock:


Cheers, Don

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Blackmac. Just to look at the counterpoint. If only enough pilots were trained to satisfy the jobs available then those dipsticks that shouldn't be working but got a training slot because their brother-in-law's buddy was the chief pilot at Low Budget Air would be around for ever. How can you 'justify' a quota-ed training slot when there is a guy out there who isn't working?


Military or civil, all training is completed to a particular 'minimum' standard. Some will meet the minimum and some will exceed it by a little, some by a lot. Some will continue to excel and others will degade without someone kicking their a$$ all day. We live in a free market economy, get used to it.



Vortex Ring. Well stated.



Saturnman. Sorry, but CHL bashing is just TOO EASY if you've worked for them. You must agree......

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Having been involved in both sides of the industry, I think the major issue facing our industry as a whole is quality.


By that I mean that any person who has $50-60K and a reasonable set of motor skills can get a Commercial Pilot's license. The first problem is the standard to which we train. Not only is it far too simple, and heavily based on book study, but it's stuck in the stone age.


Students are wasting time and money learning navigation through the drift line method while actual low-level map reading is non-existant. Countless hours are spent practicing exercises that will have very little bearing in real world flying. Aerobatics in FW are non-existant which is a crime, and in helicopter schools essential skills like the use of wobble pumps, drums, elementray machine maintainance, net repair, and the use of GPS in conjunction with maps is entirely missed or barely glossed over.


If we produced students that were actually able to function on their first day on the job, we might be getting somewhere. Back to the flight test standards. Do we really care if a 100 or 200hr(FW) pilot can recite the CARS? As long as people know where to look things up, they'll be fine. Why is low-level flying not taught as a componet of the CPL?? Where do you go when the wx goes for a #### under VFR? DOWN. Reading a map on a CAVOK day from 5000ft is a joke, counting drainages when it's anywhere never VFR mins is a whole other story. We write a completely ridiculous exam that has one maybe two pertinent questions on it,(ATPL being een worse) while winter ops for example are not even touched upon.


The whole system needs a complete overhaul from the written exam, to the flight test and content of the training. Students are routinely discouraged from any sort of low-level flying,(and not shown how to being with, and it is an art) some schools in FW ban solo night flying, and yet 5hrs. of instrument time are required in a helicopter. WTF?? Transport should mandate a dual demonstration of low wx ops, particularly in rotary, 5 hrs. staring at some gauges that probably hardly work is not going to save any young helicopter pilot in inadvertant IMC. Spend the time equiping these kids with some tools to AVOID invadrtant IMC and show them what can be done when these conditions may be encountered. Emphasis on pilot decision making is essential. Teaching it in the classroom, then flying in perfect conditions doesn't cut it.


How a flight instructor with 2000hrs in the right seat of a C-172 can aquire an ATPL is beyond me. How a student with 250hrs. TT can become a flight instructor is beyond me. Make these things more difficult to acquire and we may see a natural weeding process start. Everyone is free to do what they choose in this country, but some people should just not be doing what they chose...


Becomming a good pilot takes many things, and many of them are very obvious from the beginning. It is Tranport's job to recognise this and set a standard high enough to weed out those who do not meet it. Once a pilot graduates a tough system, they'll at least be able to take care of themselves and maybe 2000hrs rotary mins to fly around the flat oil patch in Alberta will be lowered to a reasonable level.



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HeloTeacher; I really appreciate your comments, but you seem to have a different point of view.


You and I both agree with Vortex Ring, but I didn't understand your so called counter point. I was born in Quebec.


Auto-Relight: As person who is from both sides of the track and perceptive, we good sure use guys with your experience on a committee in HEPAC.


Cheers, Don


PS: Keep the constructive comments coming.

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OK, the counterpoint. I, too, hate seeing guys blow thousands of dollars on flight training and get nothing from it. But, the only way the industry is assured of getting the best possible product is if they they have a selection of potential employees. If only certain people get a chance to train (as in your scheme, and in Nigeria for instance) then they are the only people you can hire. If they are crap, then tough, you are required to hire them.


I'll be damned if I will ever endorse any industry being controlled by governement, the most corrupt and self-centered industry there is!!!!!!!!!!!!

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HeloTeacher: I can appreciate your comments as I worked for the government,but you also must appreciate that you are part of the government, for the government is the people.


If the process of pilot/ame training was better controlled it would be a godsend to have them under the private sector.


As you and I are both aware this will never happen because there is no standard, unless it is enforced.


There is abosolutely nothing wrong with TC's rules and reg's, they make sence, but who enforce's them??????


As for who gets hired from the government schools, is controlled by the operators.


Just like a computer, garbage in, garbage out.


ATAC, CAMC, HAC, NATA, QTA, etc., are operators agenda and have little or no reference to the reality of the individual pilot or engineer that makes it happen.




Take Care, Cheers, Don

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