College Of Professional Pilots

[Wandering Nomad]

I was passed on this organizations name ( http://www.collegeofpilots.ca/Home.aspx ) by my fixed wing cousin, who mentioned that they are looking for rotor wing pilots to represent the rotary side of aviation. I have email addresses for one of the organizors as well as the Western Regional Representative, if you would like them then please pm and I will pass them on.

I realize that it alot of it is related more towards the fix wing side of operations. Having talked to one of the organizers when the first started setting up the organization. He did talk about trying to represent the rotary side as well, but said it would be difficult as he little knowledge of our side of the business. So if anyone is interested give them shout.

[CD]

Probably a good idea to pay attention to what's going on. Over on AvCanada, there are 22 pages of discussion (so far) and some of it is actually interesting:

 

AvCanada: College of Pilots?

 

The College is looking to assume responsibility for all Canadian working pilots:

Through this Safety Partnership Program the College will regulate licensed commercial and airline transport pilots and provide and administer guidelines for safety in commercial and airline transport aviation.

 

The College’s goal is to establish and maintain standards for education, training, certification, aircraft and instrument rating, professional competence and professional conduct of commercial and airline transport pilots. The College’s mission is, with the authority of the Minister, the governance of professional pilots in the interests of public safety and efficient commercial flight activities.

[Wandering Nomad]

This was posted on the AvCanada forums by Clive Scott a rep from the College of Professional Pilots and explains a little more as to what they hope to achieve and provide for pilots with the in the industry. His post was in response to concerns and worries that fix wing pilots had expressed within the AvCanada forum.

 

 

My name is Clive Scott and I am a board member and Western Regional Director for the College of Professional Pilots of Canada. I have been in the business for 28 years, spending the last 10 years at Westjet and have experience in charter, training, and ag operations.

First. let me apologize for taking so long to answer your questions. Like most of the other members, I fly full time and do not spend a great deal of time on the forums. I will try and answer as many concerns and questions as I can.

 

1) The College was founded with the intent of providing a unified voice to government, industry, and the public for all professional pilots in Canada. Concerns leading to the founding of the College included the precedent set by the Mark Tayfel case, the general erosion of authority of the PIC, the increasing liability borne solely by flight crew, the lack of benefits, assistance, and support available to those pilots in the industry with no formal support or representation.

 

2) The College currently exists as a corporate entity with an appointed board and executive. As membership grows the College by-laws dictate that the current appointed board will be dissolved and an elected board from the membership will take its place. We are under no illusion that the College will be a success without the majority of Canadian pilots buying in to the vision. All the work to date has been to simply get us to the point where we can go to the pilots of this country with something concrete to offer.

 

3) Hidden agendas - all the members of the board have made a formal commitment that no corporate, union, or association agenda will play any part in the business of College. The college in NOT a union. We have no mandate to negotiate pay or working conditions, or to dictate to any operator how they conduct their business. At this stage the College has no legislated or delegated authority and will be primarily a unified voice for the pilots of Canada should they so choose. The mission and goals of the College are available for all to view at collegeofpilots.ca

 

4) Funding - ACPA, ALPA , WJPA and other associations have provided one time seed capital for the College. It has been made clear to these associations that they have absolutely no say in the conduct of College business.

 

5) "Elitist airline pilots" it is somewhat ironic that many of the benefits and services proposed by the College will benefit those in the non airline aviation world more so than those already represented by unions or pilot associations. All of the current college board are non-paid volunteers, and many of us will be retired before the full benefits of the College come into play. We believe that such things as affordable health benefits and legal representation, loss of income and/or medical insurance, pilot and family assistance programs, and technical and safety support can only benefit the entire industry not just those in the airlines. Another example is the RAIC pass - we believe that any holder of a red pass should be eligable for jump seat travel as a professional courtesy.

 

6) Educational Standards - in discussions regarding minimum educational standards it has never been proposed that a college or university degree would be mandatory to become a pilot.

 

In closing let me thank you for your patience - we wil try to get as much information out to the general pilot population as soon as possible (including the Aviation Safety Newsletter).

There is a contact page on the College website. If any wish me to come and speak to a pilot group, company, or association please call me direct at 780-983-0888 or pm on this site.

I will be flying for the next few days but will try and return any messages as soon as possible.

 

Clive Scott

College of Professional Pilots of Canada

[Blackmac]

Helicopter Engineers & Pilots Association, Canada, (HEPAC) for all practical reasons no longer exists.

 

I urge all ex-members to support the College of Professional Pilots as the goals are similar, but not limited to the Helicopter Industry.

 

As indicated, the College will be representing all commercial pilots in the aviation industry, if they so wish.

 

HEPAC had difficulty with lack of membership since 2003 representing a smaller group of individuals in the helicopter industry.

 

The College Of Professional Pilots has been formed by pilots from the major airlines and will have a larger base to draw membership from and is presently seeking official government approval.

 

I had a long talk with the president of the College and he welcomes everybody from the helicopter industry to take part.

 

AME's were not addressed, but there is no reason for it not to come up at a later date when things are finalized.

 

Go to the AVCanada site there are 23 pages of good and bad.

 

 

Cheers, Don :up: :up:

[splitpin]

The College Of Professional Pilots has been formed by pilots from the major airlines and will have a larger base to draw membership from and is presently seeking official government approval.

 

AME's were not addressed, but there is no reason for it not to come up at a later date when things are finalized.

 

Cheers, Don :up: :up:

 

I, for one, as a long-time Engineer, would not sanction or support any organization that did not take into account Engineers concerns as well. You just have to look around a bit to see how many Unions, Associations, T.C. rules, etc, etc Pilots have. What does the average bush or hangar Engineer have?? You guessed it Bucko--- Sweet Eff All!!

[Guest Bullet Remington]

Yep!! What Splitty said X 2!!

[Icewind]

I am not an engineer but have a lot of sympathy for their situation. I don't know a lot about this organization but could the Canadian Aviation Maintenance Council http://www.camc.ca/en provide assistance in addressing the concerns of the Canadian helicopter maintenance engineer? They have established initiatives to develop Occupational Standards for Quality Assurance Manager and Quality Auditor positions, why not the helicopter engineer?

 

[splitpin]

I am not an engineer but have a lot of sympathy for their situation. I don't know a lot about this organization but could the Canadian Aviation Maintenance Council http://www.camc.ca/en provide assistance in addressing the concerns of the Canadian helicopter maintenance engineer? They have established initiatives to develop Occupational Standards for Quality Assurance Manager and Quality Auditor positions, why not the helicopter engineer?

 

 

CAMC does not or ever will concern itself with the concerns of the average AME. As far as I can see from past performance the CAMC is dedicated solely to gaining control of the AME licencing system which in turn would reflect the wishes of the companys they represent. If you think for one second CAMC has the interests of the average AME at heart, think again. Why is there STILL no duty day regulations. Why are working conditions deplorable. Why does the average first year plumber make more than a 25 year Licenced AME. I challenge any CAMC member to convince me that you have AMEs' interests at heart by doing this: Lobby the Federal Government for duty times (same as Pilots) plus overtime pay and benefits for all Licenced Engineers in Canada. We will see how long it takes for your "employer members" to squash that one!!

 

As for the various AME associations across the country the situation is much the same. The Pacific AME association is the only one that actually posts their membership list. Surpise-surprise!! All Companys!! Not ONE individual!! http://www.pamea.com/members/members.html Now, you tell me how an association that is composed ENTIRELY of employers can possibly have the interests of the average AME at heart. There is no access to a membership list on all the other associations websites across Canada but I suspect the membership makeup is the same as PAMEA.

I issue the same challenge to any AME association in Canada. Duty days, benefits, overtime, etc. I don't think it will ever happen. Your membership might have to actually have to pay and treat employees according to the standards of the industrial world.

My thoughts about HAAC are basically the same but I will admit they are up front about who they represent.

 

Sooo.... I'll bet there is a lot of folks out there right now who are wondering who this a--hole is who is venting off!!

Well, I have been a Licenced Canadian AME M1/2 for 50 years (this year) I have worked on just about any fixed or rotary winged aircraft you can think of all over the world. I have worked for Union and non-Union companys worldwide. I have NEVER lost an aircraft ar hurt a Pilot or a passenger.

My name Is John Walter Nixon and I go by the handle of Splitpin on several aviation websites.

I am fully retired and have NO FEAR or CONCERNS of any company blacklisting me. You can't get at me now BUCKO!! I can say what I want!!

[Blackmac]

Splitpin & The Bullet:

 

Without Prejudice

 

Of all people to criticize your fellow Matlo would be you guys. I never had much love for CAMC, but I do believe there are more AME's in the industry than pilots, so how come we are just hearing about this now.

 

I started HEPAC for engineers and pilots and got more support from pilots than engineers, so maybe you should go figure.

 

We all know where we come from an engineer is just a frustrated pilot and a pilot is an engineer who never made it. I am really frustrated as a retired M1/M2/Pilot

 

Splitpin, that is the longest post you have ever made, has BR been given you lessons.

 

With all due respect the AME's have had association long before the pilots. If you are stuck with non-entities, is that the fault of the pilots????

 

The College, at present is not dancing the TEXAS two step, we will try one step at a time.

 

In the meantime try and get your shyte together with the rest of the AME's and see what the future brings.

 

Cheers, Don

 

[pilot5]

Hey hey hey! Whats with the "College" thing !!! OMG this implies that there is some form of higher intelligence? Not possible wont work! Just the name has doomed its sucess!

 

Duck and cover!

 

P5