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U.s Flight Schools In Canada


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OK, so I have a few hundred hours in the 300, and a few hundred in Robinson products, and you are going to tell me that the R22 is of less quality than the 300??

 

Sorry, that just aint right.

 

Take a look at the downtime of the 300, vs. the downtime of a 22/44 and they do not even compare. The time out of service due to unexpected maintenance issues are HUGE in the 300, and I have yet to have one in the Robinsons I am now operating, so don't give us that.

 

All machines have their merits and downsides, and frankly there are no 'better or worse trainers'.

 

AS for getting a job, try to walk into a company in Canada today with 1000 hours of flight instruction in the states under your belt, and a Canadian fresh CPL, and see how easy it is to get hire.

 

(You can ask me how I know, and I DO have the mountain training given in the US, I even worked at the biggest school there at the time, Helicopter Adventures)

 

Cheers

H.

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8. Why is FW training very similar in pricing on both sides and RW is higher in Canada using a lesser quality training aircraft? Could this be because of lack of competition?

 

 

 

Lesser quality training aircraft? that is ridiculous. training on a R22, 300 or 47 makes no difference. That is solely the opinion of your flight school. When it comes to getting your first job, a student might as well make it as easy as possible. There is a high probability that a first job will involve a R22 or a R44. A school that runs the Robinson machines can offer that, the jump from a 22 to a 44 is like changing pedal bike sizes....easy. So does a student, training on a 300 have to go to another school to get a 44 and 22 endorsement to land the first job? sounds like more of a pain in the a*# plus more $$$$$$. Or is it easier for a student do be completely familiar with Robinson products from the start to go to work with a Robinson product?

 

as far as being more expensive, well that is with everything, why is my Subaru $45,000 in Canada, and $31,000 in the US only a 2 hour drive away? cost difference goes much much farther than aviation! That is why we love E-Bay Anyways, the extra coin spent pays off 10 fold in school/student support over the rest of the career!

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My question is as a low time flight instructor how many of the hours that you build instructing are with your hands and feet on the controls?

 

I can only speak for myself (and Gemini) but R22/44 training is important as we fly the R44's and we hire from a 100 hours up. Now that's not to say I've never hired a low time pilot that has trained on 300's or 47's but the majority trained 22 then did the last 10 hours in a 44.

 

Another thing I can say is that the school and instructors are important when I hire and I always ask them in an interview and I always call the instructor(s) for a reference......I have probably hired 20+ low time (100-300 hour) pilots in the last 8 years.

 

My view on the NAFTA agreement and cross border work is that if it is a specialty service that no one else provides or there is limited providers so be it but that is not the case here. Where does it stop......next thing their turbines are in the forestry rotation!

 

As far as the difference in hourly rates......tell us after a year if your making good money at the proposed rate! I think you will find the cost of business is generally higher north of the border.

 

Todd Tkach

Gemini Helicopters

 

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As far as the difference in hourly rates......tell us after a year if your making good money at the proposed rate! I think you will find the cost of business is generally higher north of the border.

 

Todd Tkach

Gemini Helicopters

 

Todd brings up a good point. It has been mentioned more than once on this thread about high costs in Canada.

 

Basic economics......the Canadian loonie has rarely been at parity with the U.S. dollar.

Apply for an O.C. these days, and find out what that is worth! Add on to those "basics", our tax structure.......... and yes, also the cost of "flight crews" which "are" by the way, "higher" than our U.S. counterparts.

 

Just a few things at add to higher costs in Canada!! ;)

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Now this is what I’m talking about, Pilot friends on both sides discussing pros and cons of “Flight Training” without the bashing of one particular company or individual. This company may stay or not the fact is they are the first and if it wasn’t them it would have been someone else. This thread should stay around because it is now going to be an issue for a long, long time. Since this company did bring in a 300 CBI the discussion should be again the differences between it and the R22. Bloggers come and go and there are new training pilots entering the field everyday. Every time it is discussed new info emerges which improves training.

I put forth 10 questions, opinion, etc to get it rolling and on subject. The replies, for the most part have been great and not demeaning. However, most are opinions and preferences and NOT FACTS TO SUPPORT YOUR CASE. With this in mind I’ll start with my take on the question with the first reply of, R22 the “lesser training quality aircraft”. Not knowing Canadian rules I can only state the U.S. rules. But Canada usually follows FAA.

TOA, Where I’m from, back in 1977, because of political reasons on the field to close down, I needed a place to tie my aircraft down. Mr. Roberson allowed me to do so in front of his 50X60 ft run down hanger. I was able to watch the development of the R22.

Mr. Roberson explained to me his concept “I want to develop a helicopter that is inexpensive, affordable to the average pilot and it being cheap enough that it would be considered a “Throw away”. He did exactly and did real well for himself. His complex now is about 1/8 of the whole field. In 1979 the R22 fulfilled his dreams! (Projected price was $12,999 went to $14,500 but finally sold somewhere around 30k?) Many consider it a “Throw Away” because at 2,000 it must be sent back to the factory and completely re-built at a cost of over $100,000. A 300 CBI NOTHING comes due till 4,000 hours except engine and bearing repacks. That is 2 of R22 lifetimes!

The 300 CBI (269 series) was built for the military and has the lowest operational cost of ALL trainers. It is also has the safest and lowest fatality and injury rate. In 2002 it logged over 200,000 without a single fatality or serious injury. Experts and statistics rank the 300CBI the safest and best piston training aircraft in the world.

The R22 has one of the worst safety records and one of the highest fatality and injury rates. Just a very few years ago the FAA considered grounding the entire fleet. FAA mandates that instructors that teach the R22 MUST go to the factory for training. (See; 14 CFR Part 61 R22 then backgrounds) It is the ONLY helicopter certified that has this requirement. In the R22 POH there are SEVERAL disclaimers and they all end with “May be fatal or cause serious injury”.

In training there is great emphasis on emergencies. That’s why the practice of auto rotation, stuck pedal etc…right? Along with other flight restrictions the R22 can NOT do FULL DOWN. What good are autos if you can’t practice taking to the ground?

Because of the above mentioned on the R22, Roberson has been sued many times. Do you inform your new students the risk associated with flying the R22 over other choices? I believe in not doing so you many run the risk of a law suit. Explain how you can consider to have the most complete training offered if students can not practice flight maneuvers that others ARE doing in other aircraft?

Because of these few informational FACTS, and there are many more, is why I said the “R22 is the lesser quality training aircraft”.

 

Fly Safe

 

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