Sms Works And This Is How...

[vortex]

That looks like an accurate, realistic description of what is really going on Koala119. Has TC ever compared how competition / profit affect safety? They seem to hand out OC's to anyone who meets the minimum requirements regardless of how it may possibly affect the existing companies. TC should monitor what the market will support if they actually want to contribute to safety. Just because somebody wants to be an operator, doesn't mean they should be...kinda like the old days.

[bleed air]

Has TC ever compared how competition / profit affect safety? They seem to hand out OC's to anyone who meets the minimum requirements regardless of how it may possibly affect the existing companies. TC should monitor what the market will support if they actually want to contribute to safety. Just because somebody wants to be an operator, doesn't mean they should be...kinda like the old days.

 

Amen to that.

 

Hello?...Transport Canada?...are you listening??

[Icewind]

Amen to that.

 

Hello?...Transport Canada?...are you listening??

 

Careful ! !

 

Sounds pretty left wing for this industry........

 

 

[BHP206]

I feel that SMS is largely about 'the appearances' rather than results. It may be a worthwhile initiative but the problem is not solvable by legislation. It seems to me like trying to legislate chastity or sobriety. In fact, those might be easier, safety is a state of mind not an impulse.

Safety, I think, can be learned but it has to be a company wide, industry wide, national attitude. Safety attitudes are inherent to an individual and every individual differs in what is 'safe'. That is also related to skill levels, comfort levels, area familiarity, etc.

I may be coming across as over-simplistic here, I just don't type very well.

BP

[mac]

Formal SMS are the biggest load of Hokey to come down the pipe in a longtime.I have worked with these systems with large oil customers and mixed rw/fw aviation company.One,its about deflecting liability off the large money, two,its produced and dished up by consultants and corporate interests to create a whole new gravy train to line their pockets with,The same with alcohol and drug testing-pharmaceutical companies make money out of those kits-you watch you are going to be peeing in bottles a lot more often.I was on one job where we went to so many safety meetings my eyes glazed over(I was sober in case you were wondering)little was accomplished at these meetings,mostly they talked drivel and if you brought up a real safety issue that was to hard to fix,they would all run for cover or deflect it back to you.You are not allowed to say "the emperor has no clothes"

Guess who audits these systems?-the same people who make this stuff up,so the more paper and the more complicated the more money they make.Its a bit like the five Major oil companies emergency response plans for an oil spill in the gulf of mexico.They all had the same one written by the same dead consultant who wrote it for the north sea-insert the name of your company here.

Having talented people in your companies management ie: a supportive ownership,Chief Pilot,good check and training and operations management is the best way of maintaining a safe operation.

The key issue I find Company Ops manuals now are being written by consultants for auditors-this is nonsense.Your company should have in your ops manual a description of how your company will operate to the regulations,and a description of your job and the companies policies-what you actually DO ,not full of flowery prose or procedures that nobody bothers about.Have a good operations manual and operate to it,If you have good check and training they can establish everybody on to the same page and create a company culture-that will ensure safety-not this other paper trail

I have worked for helicopter companies a long time ago who had REAL sms systems they made up themselves,they didnt even know they were called that.

have a nice day

[pilot5]

The key problems with SMS are that :

 

1. It wont be fully up and running for 702-703 Helicopter Ops till 2015 if lucky- the large operators fixed and rotary was late 3 years, And there are 1/8 the amount. TC doesn't have the resources. This comes from a friend at TC that will remain anonymous.

 

2. Although TC maintains that they still can audit and do inspections we know they are completely understaffed and half if not 3/4 the qualified experienced pilots that want to work for TC as inspectors cant because for the most part they are broke with crap credit ratings and cant pass a security clearance and get a job with the federal government.So there goes staffing of the huge amount of additional inspectors needed just to approve implementation.So delays are inevitable..

 

3. SMS officer and the Accountable executive who hold the purse strings are going to to put profit in the way of safety whe it comes to smaller operations and tight margins.. so the whole idea for a small operator ( not all) keeping vigilance is just a bad idea... Have seen first hand in smaller nations and this is fact... accidents increase..Worse if the Accountable executive is the SMS guy- double self contained unsafe whammy.

 

 

4. Unless Transport Canada changes its investigative policy to looking for problems instead of a complaints driven type system the whole thing is doomed...And safety suffers.

 

5. Recently I went through the certification process with TC and when the cert was done the SMS guy at transport called and had no clue what to send me or what he was doing and he was the director for the entire region...for the 702-703s yeah Transport!! Good Job!

 

 

While the whole concept may work well for larger companies like Air Canada it is doomed to failure for the small operators. Anybody that sais otherwise is either misinformed or smoking crack!

 

 

My 2 cents!

 

P5

[Helidriver2]

Saftey first boys!

[Skids Up]

Having talented people in your companies management ie: a supportive ownership,Chief Pilot,good check and training and operations management is the best way of maintaining a safe operation.

 

The key issue I find Company Ops manuals now are being written by consultants for auditors-this is nonsense. (I do agree with this!)

 

Your company should have in your ops manual a description of how your company will operate to the regulations,and a description of your job and the companies policies-what you actually DO, not full of flowery prose or procedures that nobody bothers about.

 

Have a good operations manual and operate to it,If you have good check and training they can establish everybody on to the same page and create a company culture-that will ensure safety-not this other paper trail

 

 

 

It would seem to me that if you have this in place, you are well on the way to having a "SMS"in place. SMS is NOT a paperwork system. The paper work should support it, (for auditing) but it is the proper procedures, training, and management support that makes it work.

 

When we get to the place where we believe it is the change in people (and their attitudes) and NOT legislation that makes it work, we will all be safer...

[212wrench]

Two thumbs up, Skids.:up:

[Auto Relight]

As I said earlier,

 

SMS as it exists is a merely a passing of the liability buck, and most companies (customer or operator) talk a great SMS talk, then do almost the opposite in the field when push comes to shove and money becomes involved. Nothing has changed in terms of concrete safety gains, and without proper, binding, oversight, nothing will. It's hypocrisy at its finest, and serves little purpose other than to provide an effective snow-job to the traveling public or a paper trail to hide behind for concerned parties. Or at least until it gets down to the pilot or AME level, then watch out.

 

The whole issue turns my stomach, and to see the amount of time, effort, and money wasted on this exercise leaves me shaking my head and questioning how many more years I actually want to be involved in this industry. We have a Regulator who has checked out almost completely, and our safety oversight is now in the hands of those with the most at stake. It's nuts, and I'm really not sure how we got here.

 

We can't even get jobs run by supposedly strict agencies such as the various forest services to adhere to any real standards. How many idiots were out bucketing last summer in BC in reported 1/4sm? Lots. Why? Because it's been a bad year and everyone was desperate. Why did forestry do nothing? No idea. If we can't even win that battle, how do we expect drill programs in the middle of nowhere to play safe? We can't.

 

Yes, SMS is the answer.

 

Skids Up got it right.

 

AR