As 350 Ba (sd1) Performance Questions

[mixmaster]

I'm looking for some information on the summer time high altitude performance of BA Astars (if there is any high alt performance).

 

I have a customer who uses a 500D in central Utah and down in Texas. He has a Ranch in central Utah at about 8100 feet and a hunting lodge (or camp I think) at about 10,200 feet.

 

He takes the 500 up there in the summer (30 C at 8000 and 18-20C at 10,000) with 2 pax and about 200lbs of fuel. He lands in open fields in both places. He fly's there for about six weeks in the summer, then goes back in the fall for hunting when the temps match the snow outside.

 

He is looking to upgrade into something a bit bigger but cant afford a AS 350B2 and doesn't want a Longranger.

 

Can anyone speak from experience about if a BA or SD1 (Soloy) would work at those Altitudes and temps with Pilot and 2 Paxs and about 1.5 of fuel?

 

He asked me if I can find out with out the sales pitch.

 

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Per flight manuals I have seen it looks possible but people down here have been saying that you run out of power (reach Ng) before that altitude.

 

Thanks

 

Mixmaster

 

Edit: Also how is the wiring on older Astars, I have heard they cause a lot of grief and expense chasing gremlins around.

 

THX

[ray]

Can't speak of the performance, but as far as wiring issues go, we replaced the center console with a switch panel console and haven't had any issues.

Some of our A-Stars approaching 10 000 hours.

 

Switch panel consoles by Geneva Aviation, the Van-Isle switch panel STC bought out by Aeronautical Accessories, and another STC available from Maxcraft Avionics/Talon Helicopters.

[WTF_was_that]

eurocopter charts are spot on. If its says you can hover 10'000, it will do it, and with confidence. But there's no replacement for house power.

[mixmaster]

Ray, thanks for that info, I will have him look for BA's with that mod done.

WTF, have you flown BA's? Just wondered if that is from personal observation, not trying to knock you just have been told different stories thus far. Its good to hear that the charts are accurate though, but with an older machine I am sure they wont perform the same as a new aircraft.

 

Look forward to any more information you all may have

 

Thanks

 

Mixmaster

[skullcap]

Well, you will be running out of ng no question(kinda like the 500 running on TOT limit), will it lift 2 guys and 200 lbs of fuel,,,if the flight manual says so it will. But you need to take into account that the empty weight is the actual empty weight of the aircraft you intend to use, BA vary from 2700 to 2900 lbs. Also, where will 20% fuel(200 lbs) fuel take you,,,,not far. Personally do not like the tach box controlled bleed valve on the arriel 1B engine installed on B and BA, if it fails at altitude it sucks. Would probably find a B1(arriel 1D with pneumatic bleed valve) that is not too much more to purchase than BA and can be converted to B2 in future easily.

 

If the owner likes the 500 maybe consider a c20R powered 500E or 530F.

 

I have a lama which would perform like crazy for sale, pm if interested.

 

[mixmaster]

Skullcap,

Thanks

He is set on something with more space, not interested in more people carrying ability (but we will see how that goes!).

Glad to hear that if the charts say it can it should do it.

Thanks for the info

 

Mixmaster

[WTF_was_that]

I have flown a BA and a BA+. Its been a couple years though. The BA+ has a 600 lycoming. There ok and have the same performance as the aerial. A very good point is the empty weights. astars can be pigs when its come to accessories. if you have cheeks, high gear, to many avionics a PA system, big battery, cargo hook, you can easily reach over 3000lbs. 300lbs is 30% fuel or about 1hr

 

A light BA can be great work horse.

 

 

 

[dimit]

According to the BA FM: At 8000' & 30C a straight BA will hover OGE at 3600lbs. If yer machine weights 2800lbs and you've got 50% fuel (500lbs: 300lbs/1hr + 200 lbs/20% reserve) you can carry 300 lbs of pilot and other stuff. IGE hover = 3850 lbs or 550 lbs of pilot and other stuff but no margin when the wind goes the other way on short final.

 

DM

[mixmaster]

Wow, Thanks for all the good information.

 

One final Question, Any ideas on operating cost in US$, CAD$??

 

Conklin & de Decker has the BA at $640 US per hour similar to a L3, Does that sound about right (know the fuel costs are highly variable at the moment)?

 

Any info on this front would be great

 

 

Thanks

 

Mixmaster

[kube]

One point on the cost side. Repairs and O/Hs on Eurocopters are very expensive because of the tightly contolled access to information from the OEM. Compare any accs. or other basic repair on a Bell or MD product to the equivalent an AS350. Also look for shops in your area that can perform simple repairs on these A/C. You will have a broader selection of vendors on most repairs or even part exchanges on North American A/C.