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Well guys, look at this way. They sure are moving west and lowering rates and getting more aircraft. There's a problem coming down the road for them if they continue on this course. That problem is that sooner or later they have to start hiring western pilots in large numbers to occupy those seats because they got real problems finding enough pilots in "La belle Province" now and it aint gettin' any better. There are some, but not many western pilots that are going to work for lower eastern wages. Ergo, they won't get the western pilots they need. There has been a move afoot to bring in pilots from France. Now you got another problem because many of them and many of the eastern pilots haven't ever seen mountains like Mt. Logan and such and will stay out. If they don't, then sooner or later many western pilots will be flying out to different locales with body-bags.


If it should happen that they get all the western pilots that they need, then we've done it to ourselves AGAIN and deserve everything we get. CC is now a big name in the east and before them there was another Coast Helicopters that made a killing, leasing aircraft to firms working the James Bay Project. That Coast was run by one very smart female.This ain't new history......seen this movie before long ago. No matter where they come from they are all in this business to make money. They can do it two ways......by the hour or by volume. If they don't do it either way, then they ain't going to be around long. Remember the old saying......"if you want to make a small fortune in aviation, start with a large fortune". I've been with three fairly large firms that tried to play "chisel charter" and got away with it for awhile.........they're all gone now and all for the same reason.

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Cap sorry but I have to disagree with you on some points, rates being low cannot be pinned on C to C moving west the rates out here have been low for a long time now and we have no one to blame but some of the Larger operators out here, as far as pay goes these guys actually pay some of the highest salaries and day rates around....it's easy for us to blame the big bad boogeyman from Que for everything we think aills us, try asking #### or 407 Driver who has done them wrong in the past and I can guarantee it is someone who isn't from Que, having flown in the east I can assure you the guys back there are just like us. The real reason for rates being in the sewer in quebec is none other than the Almighty...that's right HYDRO QUEBEC........most operators back there have been fighting tooth and nail for the last couple of years to get the rates back up...but all it takes is one guy, ask around the worst of the worst for slashing rates is Heli-Express, when the first Hydro contracts came out this season for a 205 he was a $1000.00 cheaper per hour than his competitor. As for mountains in france I know there are a few.


Just my humble opinion



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So the invasion is comming as capo suggests, and there is NO WAY IN ****, that BC pilots would work for such wages.


Unfortunately resistance may be futile.


I guess it it all depends on ones finanical situation.


For me the bank lets me live in their house as long as a make my monthly payments.


:elvis: :elvis:

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Deep Throat II -------the biggest reason that rates are low in the east and the west is because of "deregulation". I can have a business that I worked hard to establish over 10+ years and you can lease an aircraft, park that aircraft across from my hangar with your box of Kim towels and a grease gun and undercut the **** out of me. Ahhhhh, but you might go bankrupt doing that eh? Go right ahead then and wait 32 days and you can start up another company, park across from some other establshed operator and do the same thing next summer. While your doing all that he got his share of employee benefits to pay, heat, light, phone and maybe water bills to pay. What you got to pay? .....your lease payment and the outfit that you contracted out to do the maintenance or maybe it comes as a complete package. Try that before "deregulation" and first you'd have to do all kind of government paperwork and they would ask the local operators if they agreed to your joining them and they'd have to give valid reasons. Sometimes they were listened to and you were "shot down" for that location. Other times, their reasons wren't considered valid and you joined the gang at that locale. Then you'd have to buy, rent or build hangar facilities and you better have access to a washroom for your passengers or forget it. Now you're putting out some "ducats" and "low-ballin'" me ain't the same game it was before........the "playing field" has evened up a bit because now you got bigger bills that have to be paid from somewhere. You got $50,000, you can lease a Jetbox and one month from now you're in the same business that some guy worked 30 years to establish. He earned his right to ***** "big time" because he got the government trying to regulate him out of business, the troops are looking for a raise and talking about making a union even........and now someone and their Astar for $650/hr is parked 300 yrds away.


We all make enough mistakes that we can't blame everything on the operators from the east and I have no problem with some outfit going low to get a contract........that ain't new in other industries either. There's a difference though between "scratching your *** and tearing the **** out of it". Just how is money being made when Astars are going for $650/hr, Jetboxes going for as low as $499/hr and get this........Mediums going for $1,450/hr. How do you compete with that and give the troops a raise or keep them full-time?


We'll try some math now to point out the idiocy of all this. Yes, apparently Heli-Express underbid by $1000/hr. The pilot was paid $800-$1000/day guaranteed and nothing to do with flight hours. I haven't even mentioned what the engineer was getting either. I know full well what it costs to operate a 205 per hour and someone is going to "write-off" all this tax-wise or they've had a "brain cramp" or don't use the same math I do. It should also be noted that Heli-Express is owned by an extremely large transportation conglomerate. They should also keep in mind a old saying ...."if one wants to make a small fortune in aviation, you start with a large one". They obviously haven't been around long enough to remember a company called Ranger Helicopters. They moved out west also. Ya, this movie has played out many, many times before and outfits like Alpine Helicopters, etc. have seen them come and go too over the decades. They need to have a "heart-to-heart" with one Robert Milton.


Please don't mention about the Almighty Hydro Quebec and them being the "big guys on the block" these days. That's real old news for Quebec. Before they were the "big guys", there was another outfit called SEBJ and a place called the James Bay Project. They were the "big guys" then and if you didn't work for them, you were getting crumbs. Before them the "big guys' were the Iron Ore Company out of Sept-Iles, PQ and their QNS & L Railway line. I worked all those contracts and understand what you mean. Simply put, there is not now, nor has there ever been, the diversity of work for helicopters in the east as there has been in the west. In the west we have many "big guys" to deal with and if you don't get a foot in one industry, you go after another. That's why they must move out west, Mexico or off-shore. If they don't they remain static and can't get larger. The "pie" is now being cut into too many pieces as it is out here and we don't need anyone from north, east or south trying to "low-ball" the **** out of us because we've had enough "home-grown ones" to contend with in the past. The language they speak is a "red-herring" also because there are many French-speaking pilots and engineers that moved out west a long time ago and it's almost forgotten where they originally came from after all these years.


You're right, there are mountains in France, but the Rockies run for a greater distance than the French Alps.......and that's just the Rockies.........they don't have a Baffin Island in France either. We all know where the experienced mountain pilots reside.

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