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Operating Outside The H-v Curve?


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For the deep thinkers her, I'll clarify my question.


Is there such thing or something equivalent to a "moving violation"? I've driven my car above the speed limit on occasion. I didn't crash, I didn't break anyone or anything. I've also been nailed by the cops for speeding, again, though nothing bad happened as a result of my actions.


Does this translate to aviation?


Say, an "aviation cop" had seen this R-44 do what he did. Could there have been repercussions for the pilot? Regardless of what you can do, and/or what you need to do out in the bush, slinging buckets under restricted category....or whatever.


Under "normal" circumstances, I'm quite certain, R-44 guy should not have done what he did.....even though the aircraft CAN do.......as the title of the magazine would indicate.


Is this really such an odd question for a "non-pilot" to ask? Or are most of you guys just total dicks?

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Then what is the point of the h-v curve?


I'm pretty sure I've noticed that helicopters CAN go straight up and down. So that's what you guys do most of the time? fly along at 1000 ft, find your landing spot, and just go straight down?


Gosh. I feel so enlightened now.


The most important thing I've learned on this forum? I now know why people say the things they do about pilots.



The H/V Curve is simply making you aware of one fact, the fact being, if you end up inside these numbers and the engine quit, the chances of making a safe landing are pretty slim,


So you try to stay just outside of it when you make an approach or when you take off. IF THE CONDITIONS are there to do that of course.


If the conditions are not there, like in your original post or as another example, LongLine work. You do a straight down approach or vertical take off.






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Most of the guys replying to your question did so with a bit of humour probably because they spend most of their time longlining and are constantly faced with that good ole HV curve and the repercussions of being in it. Hey it is a helicopter after all and most of us (especially as we get more time under our belt) try to follow that HV curve to the best of our abilities or environment permits. Not trying to be a d###. Maybe sarcasm though :P


So here is a question for you...did you ask said robbi driver if he had a permit or did you just assume he was in violation? If you're really that concerned, and you don't want to ask the driver, maybe go down to the city office and ask if a special permit was issued or permission granted by the city. Just a thought.

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The R44's H/V diagram is in the 'performance' section of the Flight Manual, and though it is "FAA Approved", it is not a limitation. The chart says to "avoid flight within the shaded area".

I feel it would be hard for an enforcement officer to violate the pilot for the described descent profile because of the commonly understood, non-mandatory definition of the word avoid.


However there are other Regulations to seriously consider......


602.13 (1) Except if otherwise permitted under this section, section 603.66 or Part VII, no person shall conduct a take-off, approach or landing in an aircraft within a built-up area of a city or town, unless that take-off, approach or landing is conducted at an airport, heliport or a military aerodrome.



602.01 No person shall operate an aircraft in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger the life or property of any person.


As pilots, we are constantly faced with some tough decision-making.

Long-lining may be "in the curve", but not necessarily "reckless or negligent".

However, landing vertically in your suburb.........??? Hmmmmm.

This R44 pilot may well be the "total dxck" you mentioned.

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Hey everyone,


Please be advised that this topic is being watched and will be moderated as required. Pilots: thanks to those of you who have taken the time to educate a non-pilot. Non-pilots: yes, many pilots are insufferable, but please extend respect to the ones who aren't. Everyone: Shawn Coyle addressed some of the questions about performance vs. limitations sections in the Dec'09-Jan'10 issue of Vertical, if you'd like to read more on that subject.





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