L4 Vs B2

[DGP]

At 800 feet above sea level at full gross on the L4 on a 30C day I can barely pull off a spray rig without the nose starting a righthand turn....once off the truck you can move the collective down to keep the nose straight....very little tailrotor control on the L4...as comparted to the high alt tailrotor...and on any turbine powered machine at 100 % or less if you put in right pedal the engine says...hey we don't need this much fuel as mister pilot has just decreased the demand by pushing right pedal(counterrotating aircraft) and the machine will start to drop as the fcu cuts the fuel demand back...right hand turns can still be made using cyclic and full left pedal jammed in...you start making right hand turns leading with right pedal and you could be in for some fun

[407 too]

you lost me there DGP, how would you settle without lowering your collective ?? You DO drop a bit before going through translational lift, but that has nothing to do with off-loading your tail rotor...

[FREDDIE]

Its all good Mike you know what you are talking about and not only that you can back it up. Its been a few years since I have been by your place and I hear it is more Beutiful all the time good day and have a great year. Steve (I used to work for Bob Holt)

[DGP]

Lets try this again...you are pulling 100% in a hover and you have stopped moving up....but you want to get over those trees that are in front of you...so some folks say...probably those that flew a non governed bell 47...which I trained on...if you gave a small amount of right pedal you will off load the tailrotor and give a small amount of power back to the engine....all is fine on a non goverened engine...on a jetbox..longdog...whatever that has a governor if you decrease the power required to remain in a hover at 100% by giving right pedal by decreasing the pitch on the tailrotor..the governor will sense a less power required ...not by using your collective..it will keep the engine at 100% N2 by decreaseing fuel flow...you probably would all see a small decrease in torque setting as well...not sure as at this point things will be getting tense and probably you will be trying not to let the noise get turning to fast to the right....by telling the fcu which works with the governor that you need less fuel to remain at 100% n2 you will start to loose height even as the torque remains at 100 %...have always been told told hold full left pedal to get all the power that the engine will give...the more left pedal the more fuel to old bettsy back there...if you try to push the nose further left at this point you will see the torque go over 100%.I have tried the right pedal offload thing many times just to see if it would or would not work..and more than once the aircraft would start to drop...I have also found that having the wind about 10 degrees off of the nose...can't remember right now if it was left or right but old bell would lift way better than keeping the nose into wind...and another good trick is to take all the doors off which will also lighten up the ship...if it is warm out...but with the doors off....hold the hover slightly out of wind...I use the wind on the left side...and with that air blowing through the cabin..you will not believe the amount of lift you can get...just some things that I have tried over the years...whatever works...am sure that other guys have other tricks....have not flown a B2...staight B and a B1 only....I have heard from friends that flew the B2 that they prefer the super D...

[oil pressure]

2500 lbs. does not seem a little light. L4 low gear utility config no frills or gimicks, bush rig, 2500 lbs as Mike says. He should know he has 2 of them and uses them high, low steep and flat.

 

been my experience in 2 bladed bells that a touch of right pedal does not cause a/c to drop. same pitch same rpm same lift. gives you a bit of tq to pull then you can go UP more. Up is good!

 

 

 

[DGP]

Up is usually good I have flown the L4 for 11 years now and have had to lift off full gross almost every time during spraying which traslates into hundreds of takeoffs and as the temps go up you will lift off with the nose just slightly to the right of your take off path with full left pedal...once off the rig and gaining some speed and a little down on the pole the nose staightens out and away you go...not having to climb over obstacles is the key to success here...taking off on a ridge at altitude would be somewhat the same...keep the rotating side up & the skids down and have a good one

[RonnyRotor]

Up is usually good I have flown the L4 for 11 years now and have had to lift off full gross almost every time during spraying which traslates into hundreds of takeoffs and as the temps go up you will lift off with the nose just slightly to the right of your take off path with full left pedal...once off the rig and gaining some speed and a little down on the pole the nose staightens out and away you go...not having to climb over obstacles is the key to success here...taking off on a ridge at altitude would be somewhat the same...keep the rotating side up & the skids down and have a good one

Whats with the nose to the right with full left pedal??? If you cant keep it in trim then you are obviously over gross and looking for trouble.

[RonnyRotor]

What ???? No arguments??? guess I will have to go Talk to the wife for a while

[RonnyRotor]

Fred, as far as a Bell product goes, you are decreasing pitch hence TQ on a right pedal turn, not increasing.

If you can maintain a nose straight hover at 100 % TQ, you can do a CONTROLLED pedal turn to the right, and again acheive a nose straight hover at 100% TQ

Again . Tooo Heavy.. lookin for trouble. Glad I dont own that machine... and for the record... My company pays me well not to do that stufff

[Black Mike]

Its all good Mike you know what you are talking about and not only that you can back it up. Its been a few years since I have been by your place and I hear it is more Beutiful all the time good day and have a great year. Steve (I used to work for Bob Holt)

 

Hi Steve,

I often think of Bob- every time I jack up our truck, with the jackall especially. Things here are the same as when you were here last- maybe just a few more motorbikes in the hangar.

 

The L-4 needs time to get the feel as it doesn't have the horsepower as some machines. I have about 3000 hours on both regular tailrotor and H.A. t/r. We do I.A. with no basket as everything fits inside, we are on low gear too.

 

For the record, our machines weighed with survival kit and all pilot accessories, maps, bill books, radios, spare oil, and sat phones. (put these behind the pilot and copilot seat and eliminated the lead in the nose) tool kit by the co-pilot right toe, machines are 2505, and 2525

lbs- weighed on VIH's new scales, I did the calculations myself.

 

Make sure you have the wind figured out or you may be in trouble. If it doesn't feel right, do 2 trips to the ridge or mountaintop- I still do this after 34 years of flying, all the time- I don't feel bad about it either. (we are paid by the hour aren't we)

 

Mike