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[Daz]

Seems that most are looking for the 1000 hr guys for a minimum experience. So when those guys run out, then what?

 

the Duke

 

Well, I know a 200 hour guy... :up:

 

- Darren

[skullcap]

I would suggest getting as much varied type of experience as you can. I hired a pilot in the 90's who had 680 hours and around 300 were longlining,,,,yes was true. He was hired and did an excellant job. You can't float around well site to well site for 3000 hours and expect the world either, and time on ground idling waiting for your customer does not count in a logbook in my point of view.

[Daz]

I would suggest getting as much varied type of experience as you can. I hired a pilot in the 90's who had 680 hours and around 300 were longlining,,,,yes was true. He was hired and did an excellant job. You can't float around well site to well site for 3000 hours and expect the world either, and time on ground idling waiting for your customer does not count in a logbook in my point of view.

 

If I had my druthers i'd do it that way. Last summer, I had a pilot/owner casually mention to me that they kept the duals in all their machines during the summer - and I could come fly with him whenever he had jobs locally. I never did get the timing to work for that, but I have had the odd chance to ride along with him this winter (no duals ). Even though I wasn't flying, the mentoring and experience was great and I think there's a lot of value in that. They're a great example of the type of small and diverse company that I'd like to build a career with - heliskiing, sightseeing, forestry/fires, mining sampling, drill moves... if I could spend a summer as a hangar rat with the chance to fly with an experienced pilot mentoring me, then I think I would take that over - as you described it - floating from well site to well site. I know that PIC hours are more valuable in the logbook, but for me it ain't about racking up numbers. Or maybe I'm out to lunch

 

Don't get me wrong - if I find an opportunity to fly around well sites you better believe I'll pursue it!

 

Back on track - there *are* noticeably more employment ads this year over last; a good sign for everyone, I hope. Even though most operations are looking for 1000+ hour pilots, hopefully that means there's spots opening up for us low-timers.

 

- Darren

[tDawe]

and time on ground idling waiting for your customer does not count in a logbook in my point of view.

 

Or Transport's.

[__________]

There has definitely been a steady flow of new VFR & IFR employment ads coming out since early winter and seems a little earlier than usual on the VFR side. Sounds like mining and oil and gas have picked up this year so it's not just hiring on speculation of contracts for some. So i agree with the Dr. that when those 1000hr pilots run out they maybe hiring even lower time guys along with the turnover from pilots jumping around to different companies seems like it looks promising this year for all. I have around 1000hrs and sent out one resume for an interesting job and got an offer. However I really enjoyed the variety of work and challenging environment of my previous employer. So there will be a lot of tough decisions pilots will have to make this year. Skullcap made a very good point as well "getting as much varied type of experience as you can". Hours aren't everything. I talked to 2 pilots this winter who both had over 2000hrs of point to point flying who both wanted to get longline, mountain, and different operational time but have found it tough to get a job with there current experience. Although i am sure they will find something this year. Good luck to all........

[shakey]

If I had my druthers i'd do it that way. Last summer, I had a pilot/owner casually mention to me that they kept the duals in all their machines during the summer - and I could come fly with him whenever he had jobs locally. I never did get the timing to work for that, but I have had the odd chance to ride along with him this winter (no duals ). Even though I wasn't flying, the mentoring and experience was great and I think there's a lot of value in that. They're a great example of the type of small and diverse company that I'd like to build a career with - heliskiing, sightseeing, forestry/fires, mining sampling, drill moves... if I could spend a summer as a hangar rat with the chance to fly with an experienced pilot mentoring me, then I think I would take that over - as you described it - floating from well site to well site. I know that PIC hours are more valuable in the logbook, but for me it ain't about racking up numbers. Or maybe I'm out to lunch

 

Don't get me wrong - if I find an opportunity to fly around well sites you better believe I'll pursue it!

 

Daz you seem like a really likeable guy, I just don't think you did to much research in this Gig! Well site to well site is not much fun but its at least PIC well site to well site.

 

Well site to well site as PIC counts more than sitting in the back seat with Neil Armstrong.

 

I think you need to re-think what you got yourself into.

 

I wish you all the best.

 

Back on track - there *are* noticeably more employment ads this year over last; a good sign for everyone, I hope. Even though most operations are looking for 1000+ hour pilots, hopefully that means there's spots opening up for us low-timers.

 

- Darren

[scubasteve]

You can't float around well site to well site for 3000 hours and expect the world either, and time on ground idling waiting for your customer does not count in a logbook in my point of view.

 

This is more just out of curiosity, rather than stirring anything up. If you believe that the guys sitting around, ground idling, waiting for their customer, shouldn't log the time the machine is running, then what should they do. Should it be completely unloggable or some other form of loggable time, other than PIC? I believe they should be allowed to log the time, for the simple fact, that so long at that machine has blades turning, they are fully responsible for the actions and consequences of what may happen. If the customer walks into the tail rotor, if they get hit by a main blade, if the machine slips or slides while idling causing structural damage or any other damage, if there is a mechanical failure while idling, or any other amount of scenarios could come about while idling. Is the pilot not responsible? I know that I would still have my head on a chopping block if something happened while idling, as I am the responsible person for that aircraft while its engine is running and blades are turning. So why shouldn't I be allowed to log the time?

 

I know it doesn't compare the varied experience other pilots can get, but that's how the industry is, and it should be up to employers to make a decision about the people they want to hire based on their work experience, knowing full well what type of work that potential employee was doing. just my two cents.

[Daz]

Daz you seem like a really likeable guy, I just don't think you did to much research in this Gig! Well site to well site is not much fun but its at least PIC well site to well site.

 

Well site to well site as PIC counts more than sitting in the back seat with Neil Armstrong.

 

I think you need to re-think what you got yourself into.

 

I wish you all the best.

 

I probably could have been more clear, that's for true. I did not mean to discount wellsite flying - it's flying, and it would teach me more than the no flying I'm doing right now. And I'd consider it *plenty* fun; I just wonder if some time with experienced pilots might benefit me more. Perhaps an example would help clarify my point: A while ago I had a conversation with a (relatively) low-time pilot whose first 70 or 80 hours were spent flying - with duals in - with the boss. He received a ton of training and mentoring before he went out on his own as PIC. On my first (and only) job, I had a similar opportunity (not as many hours), and I really liked it - I considered it free training. Not long ago I talked with two high time guys that mentioned that they were thrown into big machines and some pretty involved work when they were fresh out of school, which they both admit now was pretty scary at the time. I'm also nearing 40; when I was 22 I'm sure I would have had a much higher opinion of my abilities and less appreciation for constructive criticism, whereas now I have no problem saying "hey, I'm no hotshot - show me the ropes".

 

 

Which segues into the next point... believe it or not I did do research beforehand. I just haven't stopped . I like the feedback and advice I get here - your post is no exception. Thanks for the well wishes!

 

- Darren

[AH1]

I'm leaving soon, but regarding mentoring and passing on experience to the new guys, it's been my experience that it goes two ways: those that are eagre to learn, and those new guys who know everything thank you very much. With those ones, I can only hope its and open bar at their funeral. I feel morally obligated to keep someone from hurting themselves when it could have been avoided, and to do so without screaming in their faces like some pricks that I know.

[skullcap]

This is more just out of curiosity, rather than stirring anything up. If you believe that the guys sitting around, ground idling, waiting for their customer, shouldn't log the time the machine is running, then what should they do. Should it be completely unloggable or some other form of loggable time, other than PIC? I believe they should be allowed to log the time, for the simple fact, that so long at that machine has blades turning, they are fully responsible for the actions and consequences of what may happen. If the customer walks into the tail rotor, if they get hit by a main blade, if the machine slips or slides while idling causing structural damage or any other damage, if there is a mechanical failure while idling, or any other amount of scenarios could come about while idling. Is the pilot not responsible? I know that I would still have my head on a chopping block if something happened while idling, as I am the responsible person for that aircraft while its engine is running and blades are turning. So why shouldn't I be allowed to log the time?

 

I know it doesn't compare the varied experience other pilots can get, but that's how the industry is, and it should be up to employers to make a decision about the people they want to hire based on their work experience, knowing full well what type of work that potential employee was doing. just my two cents.

 

 

Firstly, I did not say anything derogatory about sitting in the helicopter while was running, just as far as my opinion goes it should not be logged as flight time. If you are asked to sit in the machine while your customer is completing their mission, then that is that.

 

Second, am just saying that if you have a bunch of time doing site to site stuff within a 60 mile radius of cowpile then don't expect to move bags in Colorado and if someone doesn't give your 3000 hours the respect you think you deserve sobeit, your time is doing what it is doing, and as was already said, your potential employer should respect the time as what it is, nothing more nothing less. It is just frustrating that a potential Pilot may have 3000 hours actual flying around cowpile or may have 1800 hours flying and 1200 sitting...and if this pilot were to go on a check flight for this job then he/she may find that the potential employer thinks you fly like an 1800 hour pilot and that you may be less skilled then a pilot who has 3000 hours logged should be. So these non-flying but logged hours can be detrimental too.

 

Lastly:

How are you any more responsible for maching idling than coasting down? Maybe you should log that extra 2 minutes and 2 minutes for start. But if you leave it on a pad and it falls down two hours after you shut down are you still less or more responsible? Maybe you should log the whole time you are on tours 24/7? I was sleeping one time in the back of an Astar when a backhoe ran into a blade,,,was I responsible, sort of, but was in the middle of a park and the backhoe wasn't supposed to be there, he was just curious and drove up to see what I was doing,,,,,,was I flying,,,only dreaming of it. So, in my point of view the responsibilty arguement doesn't cut it. As well, an AME can legally start and run a helicopter with proper authorization and training and they don't log the time. I saw a longranger at Fisherman's Warf at San Fransisco years ago and it ran the whole day with no one in it most of the time while the pilot sat in a little shack waiting for potential sight seeing customers, bet he was responsible for it and bet he didn't log it as flight time. In the old days-BC(before CARS) they actually had a definition for flight which was anytime the helicopter did not have it's full weight on ground, so partial power hover entry/exit counted as flying the helicopter. Has nothing to do with responsibilty or pay,if you are getting paid for this time log it as RESP time(some companies have variations and call it air time or something), I think if you are taxiing a helicopter on wheels it can be logged as such but donno, although if it was logged as something other than flight time then potential employers could give it the due respect deserved. Some companies pay their crew based on running time and that is just fine but nothing to do with flying, and I know sometimes sitting on a mountaintop in the wind while the aircraft is running can be rather tricky and not fun but those times are few and far between and not the basis for the discussion, we are talking of sitting at a wellsite while your customer changes/checks charts are we not?

 

Lots of pilots are NOT paid running time so be thankfull. I remember heli-skiing where the client paid skids off time via hobbs meter so if I was on a crappy spot then I ensured I held power which was hey,,,safe and hey,,,got paid.

 

Probably tell have had this discussion before, sorry.