Heli-Tour Ripoff?

[__________]

R22Captain

 

I believe the original debate was between paying for your initial company training / endorsements. I think everyone here would agree that if you have put in your time with a company and they require you to fly a different A/C or longline etc. than yes the company should pay for the training weather they make you sign a contract or not. So yes you have been extremely lucky to have your initial training, edorsemnets and IFR / Night conversions paid for however most have not been as lucky as you. And even at the large and credible company you work for i don't believe very many have had there IFR/Night ratings paid for unless they have been with the company for an exceptional amount of time or like mentioned before the company is a little desperate for a qualified pilot.

[tDawe]

I'm just an infant in this business, but I'm willing to bet that Icefield isn't the first company in the history of Canadian Rotary aviation to ask a guy to pay for his first job. If they are they certainly didn't invent it, they stole the idea from more fixed wing companies then any one person can name, up to and including companies that fly Airbus A320's (not to mention Canadian "airlines" like JetsGo)

 

I've gotten 3 endorsements out of my employer, including a medium and a 61. Never paid them a dime, I signed a paper saying I would stick around for 18 months for the medium and the 61 endorsements each, would have done it on principal though, didn't need the paper. (not sure how binding they were anyway). Luck had a lot to do with me getting in the door at my company, I will NEVER dispute that. But hard work and a solid performance kept me here and got me my endorsements, luck had nothing to do with that part.

 

Whats the difference between Icefield's deal where you have to buy your job, and simply hiring a guy, training him, and then having him fly all summer and not paying him a dime? If you still end up with NO MONEY at the end of summer then didn't you work for free? Take Icefield's form letter and do the math yourself.

 

By the same token Icefield appears to be nothing if not honest about how they run their ship, so for this kid to come whingeing on the internet like he's so hard done by is quite laughable. I highly doubt it caught him/her by surprise. You don't take home the dirtiest girl in the joint then complain when your tackle has got the tickles in the morning.

[pilot5]

Fair assessment Tdawe! I have known Ralphy for years close to 20 and he is up front about the situation. If you don`t like it then dont agree to it. It`s that simple.

 

Never paid for an endorsement either. Including mountain-IFR twin and medium and other stuff too. I dunnoo maybe the industry is at a tipping point. Guys and gals need to know that its a tough business many obstacles to overcome before taking a poke. There will be disappointment and strife and also plain old assshooles ( you know who you ar) but what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger!!`

 

Good luck to the up and comers.. stick with it!

 

P5

[49 Merc]

Just a friendly suggestion -you are stepping into a mine field here. Apparently you have fallen into a lucky situation for yourself-free training and endorsments for which you owe your employer some significant loyalty. 99% of the people here haven't. You will make yourself quite unpopular by unnecessarily adverstising that. It's human nature, (after all, no one REALLY feels great for a lottery winner)and it could come back to haunt you. Case in point-years ago when Canadore was giving away free Licences (on a 206) to Ontario students, one of them showed up in Calgary looking for work. The other guy trained at his own cost at another school, not ours. We told the Canadore guy we weren't hiring him. He was indignant, stating that the quality of his training was top notch. We agreed totally. We told him, however, that he had his big break, the other guy didn't and he actually had something to lose. Canadore guy didn't. We suggested that he tone down his Free Canadore diatribe and concentrate more on humility. So sometimes free costs. And no, we didn't think it wasn't fair.

 

 

AH1

 

This is a public forum, thats what it is for. To bring information to the table so everyone can benefit from it. Not snicker in the shadows about how things turned out for yourself, and not passing on useful information to others. All R22 Capt. passed on was his experience, and that paying for endorsements isn't necessarily the norm. So now anyone faced with the decision to shell out more money to fly, they can see that not everyone had to do this, and they can make an informed decision if this is right for them.

 

I personally enjoy hearing stories like his, it reassuring to know not all companies will take every opportunity to take advantage of a low time pilot

[mic]

Just because someone is "upfront" and tells you that he's going to take advantage of you

 

doesn't mean he's not a scum bag.

 

It's pretty sad when people think that this is acceptable.

[twinstar_ca]

it's also pretty sad when all you can do is call the man a name anonymously..

 

fact is, there are points made here both pro and con... YOU make your choice... and if your 1st post is just to flame, well... 'nuff said!! :down:

[shakey]

it's also pretty sad when all you can do is call the man a name anonymously..

 

fact is, there are points made here both pro and con... YOU make your choice... and if your 1st post is just to flame, well... 'nuff said!! :down:

 

Looks like he gave his opinion. I also think he never used anyones name in giving it. Save your flaming of people yourself.

 

I love when the economy goes to **** that scumbags like this company become the patron saints of new hires.

[bishop]

I think it is irrelevant to a 100hr pilot whether or not working here is good/bad for the industry. It's easy for a 5000hr pilot to sit here and pass judgement on this company. But as a 100hr pilot your opportunities are very limited starting out. It's great if you can find a flying job out of school but realistically many don't. Because of this working for Icefield is a real opportunity that a fresh pilot would be foolish not to consider. As mentioned in a previous post this company lays out it's pilot format upfront before you start working for them and Ralph will not withold any information from you if you ask the right questions. So going into an interview here you have the power to know everything you need to and make the decision whether it will work for you/can make it work for you or know upfront that it won't work for you. It's an opportunity and as a 100hr pilot what more can you expect. Just be realistic about what their expectations are as well as yours.

 

"If you know you're being manipulated then you're not being manipulated"

[flingwinger]

$1000/hr for training... Sorry to inform you but they are making money off you before you even start working for them.

 

This was the first place I applied, I laughed at the letter... Why? Because I had just spent 50g's on school and was not about to fork out Thousands more so that I could work my *** off for FREE! After all how was i supposed to make loan payments after going deeper into debt? Instead i worked my *** off while getting paid, no more money out of my pocket and now im flying.

 

This is not the only option, and everyone else that gets started flying elsewhere is not 'lucky' - they had to work for it. Just sayin...

[bishop]

I wouldn't recommend anyone financing their license. I paid for my license out of my pocket. It took longer to put myself in a position to do it this way but it also put me in a position after my training to not be pushed/stressed pigeon holed into making decisions. Debt always limits your opportunities/choices. With the amount of unemployed low time pilots I think it's a pretty big gamble to finance your license. I know that not everyone can do it this way but in my opinion if you can't afford the process of getting your license and sacfifising financially for at least a 1-2yrs afterwords until you've built some hrs up you have no business being in this business.