Flying In The Arctic

[SuddenStop]

even if they put 1 base north of 60...where's the best place for it?? thats alot of real estate up there to cover. even for a local operator.

 

I know it's not fair to the crews who work up there when you think of this, but it's a numbers game. they base the SAR aircraft in the places where it matters the most.

when general aviation, missing persons, hikers/skiers etc and shipping incidents account for the majority of their searches/rescues, they're going to be positioned in the zone that best suits that. Don't get me wrong, I know there is potentially hundreds of people at risk flying up there everyday, but there are also thousands of wanna be american pilots trudging up the mountain ranges to alaska every year too, with little more than a hand held gps with outdated road maps to guide them. Its a shame the darwin award nominees get more preference on the save list.

 

knowing these factors, everyone who flies north should realise this and plan accordingly. Companies should train train train their crews to survive. Its the only way.

I spent a night out with a 500 after icing in the middle of nowhere and we left camp prepared, simply because a couple weeks prior a 212 waited upwards of 10 hours for SAR to arrive. That was the best case scenario. we didn't need SAR, but we knew the timeline we'd be waiting had we needed assistance. And we weren't injured. imagine 10 hours + waiting in a wreck at -40C with a broken back.

Flying up there has risks.

[just looking]

SuddenStop We could go back and forth and debate this topic all day if you like. All the way down to were would be the best base. While I agree that both coast bases are busy looking after a lot of things that are not just aviation related. I do question why Winnipeg or Trenton couldn’t be moved some were North of 60. Lets face it the chance of surviving exposure south of 60 is better then North of 60. Flying helicopters there are a number of us that have all spent cold nights in the bush. I can’t think of any operators I know that don’t preach safety anymore. I think them days are pretty much behind us. The beauty of flying helicopters is we have the ability to set down, some times it nothing to do with the ability and has more to do with do you have the brains and balls to spend the night in the cold. You mentioned laying some were with a broken back in -40 well there is no amount of training that can prepare you for that. The chances of seeing -40 south of 60 are a lot less then north of sixty. Not to mention the roads and population base along with equipment availability i.e. Helicopters and fixed wing and lets not forget day light hours.

 

As for all these thrill seekers especially those that are not Canadian citizens. They should all have to post a bond or pay cash before we even leave the ground. I personally am sick of watching the Canadian taxpayers having to pay for some person that wants to walk to the North Pole or climb some mountain. I personally carry a spot and pay the insurance coverage to pay for my rescue any were in the world.

 

 

Now back to the topic. I do fly prepared for the weather. The best advice I can give is be fully dressed and ready for the donkey to quit at the worst time. Keep the heat turned down so you are never sweating.

 

Sweating = damp clothes. Damp Clothes = Hypothermia in a hurry if you cant get shelter and a fire going.

 

 

Fly safe all

[SRobertson]

Agreed...it would be nice if some SAR assets were north of 60. Mr. harper wants sovereignty up here...what better way to start.

[Blackmac]

Agreed...it would be nice if some SAR assets were north of 60. Mr. harper wants sovereignty up here...what better way to start.

 

IMHO:

 

SAR services should be privatized from coast to coast. Get rid of the "Cormorants" and get machines with range and capability that don't spend there time on the ground waiting for parts.

 

The offshore industry should state their requirements in conjunction with the manufacturers, in realistic terms, and accept nothing less.

 

Everybody seems to equate safety with cost.

 

IN FACT THERE SHOULD BE "NO" COST ASSOCIATED WITH "SAFETY".

 

We send people to the MOON and DOCK at SPACE STATIONS, why the **** can't we build helicopters that stay in the "AIR".

 

The offshore industry spend a fortune on rigs and boats but always go for the lowest company on the RFP requirement, because their statement of requirement leaves allot to be desired.

 

RFP should have the following;

 

1. Proven capability to fly in icing conditions/full IFR/auto hover/satelite communications/ in flight refueling and whatever else.

 

2. Proven capability to hover and fly away on one engine.

 

3. The list goes on??????????

 

4. Would anybody care to put a price on their own life??????

 

DON'T TELL ME IT CAN'T BE DONE.

 

The price of the fuels extracted from offshore could include the price to build and purchase the "BEST" helicopters that money can buy.

 

Cheers, Don

 

PS: I used to work SAR with HU21 Squadron from Shearwater in the "50's" flying in HUP-3 and S55's wearing an immersion suit and a may west. I don't recall losing anybody then, SO why the **** are we losing people today.????????

 

 

 

 

[skullcap]

All is great advice so far. The biggest thing I noticed is how drastic the conditions changed with very suble change in weather. A beautiful day can turn very grey and without contrast with just a high overcast moving in. That combined with some blowing snow and watchout.

[SuddenStop]

IMHO:

 

Get rid of the "Cormorants" and get machines with range and capability that don't spend there time on the ground waiting for parts.

 

 

Not sure where you get your info, but I think this article tosses your comments out the window. 98% mission availabilty is very respectable.

 

 

Press release from Agustawestland:

 

 

 

OTTAWA, Canada – Agustawestland, a Finmeccanica company, is pleased to congratulate the Canadian Forces on achieving the benchmark of 40,000 operating hours with its fleet of AW101 (formerly EH101) search and rescue mid/heavy helicopters. The Canadian Forces has 14 of the helicopters designated the CH-149 “Cormorant” in which entered service between 2000 and 2002.

 

 

 

 

The Canadian Forces have a higher flying rate than any other AW101 fleet and Cormorant 901, currently flying out of Canadian Forces Base Comox with 442 Squadron, has the highest number of airframe hours on any of the AW101s anywhere in the world.

 

 

 

 

To date, AgustaWestland has awarded 34 Cormorant crew members with 1,000 flight hour certificates and two crew members with 2,000-hour certificates.

 

 

 

 

During this time, Canadian Forces personnel have conducted thousands of missions and hundreds of rescues including:

 

 

 

A 1,200 km round-trip rescue off Newfoundland;

A night time rescue from 30-metre deep crevasse 8,700’ up the side of an icy glacier;

A 3,500 km trip to rescue a hunter stranded on an Arctic ice flow.

 

 

 

The Cormorant has a mission availability rate in excess of 98 per cent attesting to its reliability for emergency and critical mission deployment. The fact that the Cormorant can be relied upon to launch for rescue virtually anytime, anywhere, can also be credited to the hard work of the aerospace division at IMP Group Ltd., which is contracted by the Canadian Forces to provide the helicopter’s in-service support (ISS).

 

 

 

 

Over 190 AW101 helicopters have been built or sold to civil and military customers around the world in a wide variety of configurations. The worldwide fleet had achieved in excess of 200,000 flight hours in Canada, UK, Italy, Denmark, Portugal, and Japan providing exceptional performance and an extremely high degree of safety.

[Blackmac]

Not sure where you get your info, but I think this article tosses your comments out the window. 98% mission availabilty is very respectable.

 

 

Press release from Agustawestland:

 

 

 

OTTAWA, Canada – Agustawestland, a Finmeccanica company, is pleased to congratulate the Canadian Forces on achieving the benchmark of 40,000 operating hours with its fleet of AW101 (formerly EH101) search and rescue mid/heavy helicopters. The Canadian Forces has 14 of the helicopters designated the CH-149 "Cormorant" in which entered service between 2000 and 2002.

 

 

 

 

The Canadian Forces have a higher flying rate than any other AW101 fleet and Cormorant 901, currently flying out of Canadian Forces Base Comox with 442 Squadron, has the highest number of airframe hours on any of the AW101s anywhere in the world.

 

 

 

 

To date, AgustaWestland has awarded 34 Cormorant crew members with 1,000 flight hour certificates and two crew members with 2,000-hour certificates.

 

 

 

 

During this time, Canadian Forces personnel have conducted thousands of missions and hundreds of rescues including:

 

 

 

A 1,200 km round-trip rescue off Newfoundland;

A night time rescue from 30-metre deep crevasse 8,700' up the side of an icy glacier;

A 3,500 km trip to rescue a hunter stranded on an Arctic ice flow.

 

 

 

The Cormorant has a mission availability rate in excess of 98 per cent attesting to its reliability for emergency and critical mission deployment. The fact that the Cormorant can be relied upon to launch for rescue virtually anytime, anywhere, can also be credited to the hard work of the aerospace division at IMP Group Ltd., which is contracted by the Canadian Forces to provide the helicopter's in-service support (ISS).

 

 

 

 

Over 190 AW101 helicopters have been built or sold to civil and military customers around the world in a wide variety of configurations. The worldwide fleet had achieved in excess of 200,000 flight hours in Canada, UK, Italy, Denmark, Portugal, and Japan providing exceptional performance and an extremely high degree of safety.

 

 

 

SuddenStop:

 

Not wishing to get into an argument with you, I would venture to post comments on the 101 from NDHQ, not from Agustawestland and if I'm not mistaken they are still having problems. Unless you work for said company, take everything with a grain of salt.

Cheers, Don

 

 

[SRobertson]

even if they put 1 base north of 60...where's the best place for it?? thats alot of real estate up there to cover.

 

I like Mr. Layton's idea (Corner gas huck-tooee) of using the chinooks in the Stan for arctic sovereignty. Stick them in existing infrastructure...or make new infrastructure in places like Iqaluit, Hall Beach, Cambridge Bay or Inuvik. They could support DND Rangers, DFO, Indian Affairs, Exploration companies. The visibility on arctic resources is growing and people are coming here; the Canadian Government needs to put itself in a position of visibility and control. Why not use SAR and sovereignty as the excuse to use some of these already available assets?

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

BONDS? I like the post a bond idea for the thrill seekers potentially wasting tax payer money. It could help pay for the above service.

 

back on topic....Weather changes rapidly. Yup. The forecast conditions for the arctic blizzard last week happened 6-8 hours before it was suppose to. The NOWcaster(as opposed to FORE) was even slow on making amendments. I haven't seen SKC P6SM happen yet even though it says it will. Be careful.

 

How's that? 3 topics in 1.

[SuddenStop]

SuddenStop:

 

Not wishing to get into an argument with you, I would venture to post comments on the 101 from NDHQ, not from Agustawestland and if I'm not mistaken they are still having problems. Unless you work for said company, take everything with a grain of salt.

Cheers, Don

 

no arguments required, yet i'd still trust a manufacturers propaganda over a nobody's opinion on a forum.

there's no question they have some issues. 98% isn't perfect, nor will any manufacturer with pockets lined with gold ever even achieve perfection. thats a pipe dream we shall leave to the snowboard crowd at whistler smoking the best bud BC has to offer.

[SuddenStop]

I like Mr. Layton's idea (Corner gas huck-tooee) of using the chinooks in the Stan for arctic sovereignty. Stick them in existing infrastructure...or make new infrastructure in places like Iqaluit, Hall Beach, Cambridge Bay or Inuvik. They could support DND Rangers, DFO, Indian Affairs, Exploration companies. The visibility on arctic resources is growing and people are coming here; the Canadian Government needs to put itself in a position of visibility and control. Why not use SAR and sovereignty as the excuse to use some of these already available assets?

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

BONDS? I like the post a bond idea for the thrill seekers potentially wasting tax payer money. It could help pay for the above service.

 

back on topic....Weather changes rapidly. Yup. The forecast conditions for the arctic blizzard last week happened 6-8 hours before it was suppose to. The NOWcaster(as opposed to FORE) was even slow on making amendments. I haven't seen SKC P6SM happen yet even though it says it will. Be careful.

 

How's that? 3 topics in 1.

 

 

although a potentially good idea, I can only see them becoming the newer version of a sea king and end up costing us more than they're worth in the long run.