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gwk

A Good Call Guys!

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Interesting comments coolhand. You're obviously privy to some of the details relating to this incident. Even so I don't know that you can definitively say that that aircraft could tower out of that spot unless you were sitting in it??? There are alot of variables to throw into the equation that for whatever reason may have mean't they couldn't. Just because a graph says you can HOGE under certain conditions doesn't mean it will actually do it! The performance graphs for the A model operating in temps of +25 aren't worth the paper they are written on.

 

Yes, helicopters are very versatile and can be used in a whole host of roles as you mentioned. The 76 was also used in the Antarctic in sub-zero temps slinging all kinds of loads. All good and well however some types are better suited to certain types of work. I don't dislike the 76 however it has it place and putting one into a confined area wouldn't be at the top of my things to do list! An A model in particular.

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You are right, I can not say for sure that they could have done a vertical takeoff because I was not in the aircraft. However it was between 6 and 8 degrees not 25, and I have done it many times in that aircraft. Doing a confined area in a 76 is just like any other helicopter, same rules apply. The 76 is a great platform for an air ambulance, not only is it fast and a great IFR platform, the medics in the back have lots of room to work. You can cary 2 patients on stretchers as well as 4 people sitting. I do not recall not being able to do a call because I was in the 76. They do not do rescues,that is left to smaller better suited aircraft, scene calls and transfers are what are most common. The reason that the pilots did not vertical out is probably because of the field to the left which provided for a clear way departure. You also have to realize, most departures for the 76 on the ambulance are vertical departures for clearance, both scene calls and hospital pad departures. The only time of year where you have to really concern yourself about power is in the summer, where you would reduce weight where you can. I am sure this is with CHL in Ontario as well. Again these aircraft have been doing AA work for years and have an excellent track record. Confines and off levels are also in the yearly recurrent training on the 76. Same old story as well, the more you fly an aircraft, the more comfortable you get with it and the more you see you can do with it.

 

Generally the 76 will sit on the apron with 1200 lbs of fuel. Throw in 2 pilots with a total weight of say 350 (as long as I am not one of the pilots), about 250 for gear, 400 lbs for medics (and no they are not generally larger than the pilots). The flight would burn about 200 lbs to get to the scene, so now you have about 1000 lbs of fuel, but picking up a passenger, lets say he is 200 lbs as well. Unfortunately it has been 3 years and can't remember the empty weight of the helicopter. So as you can see, this machine is not grossed out at 10,500. So to vertical out of a spot should not even be an issue. Chances are the crew did not even consider it for reasons that we can only speculate, but probably because there was no need.

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Interesting comments coolhand. You're obviously privy to some of the details relating to this incident. Even so I don't know that you can definitively say that that aircraft could tower out of that spot unless you were sitting in it??? There are alot of variables to throw into the equation that for whatever reason may have mean't they couldn't. Just because a graph says you can HOGE under certain conditions doesn't mean it will actually do it! The performance graphs for the A model operating in temps of +25 aren't worth the paper they are written on.

 

Yes, helicopters are very versatile and can be used in a whole host of roles as you mentioned. The 76 was also used in the Antarctic in sub-zero temps slinging all kinds of loads. All good and well however some types are better suited to certain types of work. I don't dislike the 76 however it has it place and putting one into a confined area wouldn't be at the top of my things to do list! An A model in particular.

 

You're right Fonz, what the **** would people like Curtis and I know.

 

He's only got thousands of hours in the same rocket doing the same job, and I've only got 20K + much of it on multi-engine helicopters.

 

Oh, one more thing, I was one of the original S76A guys - and I can confirm that Curtis's number are RIGHT!!!

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It seems verticalmag has a new resident expert on all things aviation, in particular s76's and the air abulance enviroment. Suddenstop, go back to whatever backwoods ground ambulance service you're from and bug somebody else on some other forum. If you want to have an opinion on this issue, go spend your 50 grand, get a ground job for a couple of years and when you have a few hours, by all means, tell us what you think went wrong here. News flash, pilots are the same as everybody else......human beings who #### up sometimes. We've all done it and thank god in this case nobody was injured and it had a happy ending. Haven't been around here in a while and I wonder why. In case you haven't realised yet.............you're a fuckin'' idiot. Shut 'er down.

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I think what he might be getting at is the need to land a wheeled aircraft on a hard surface where possible...perhaps with skids they may have chosen the field the first time around, and the problem may have been averted??

 

Anyone who has any real experience on wheeled helicopters will tell you that you are an IDIOT!!!

 

But what the **** would I know, I've only flown wheeled types like the SK55, 58, 61, 76, 214ST ( skids & wheels) - all over the world and in many "bush" situations.

 

But keep talking - you just look stupider and stupider.

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Geneva among others have tail mounted ENG cameras......

 

side note: That was the THIRD TIME someone has said I was right today!!!

 

Well good for you bubba, because you are woefully uninformed.

 

But hey, keep flappin' your gums, maybe the wind will get us translation.

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It seems verticalmag has a new resident expert on all things aviation, in particular s76's and the air abulance enviroment. Suddenstop, go back to whatever backwoods ground ambulance service you're from and bug somebody else on some other forum. If you want to have an opinion on this issue, go spend your 50 grand, get a ground job for a couple of years and when you have a few hours, by all means, tell us what you think went wrong here. News flash, pilots are the same as everybody else......human beings who #### up sometimes. We've all done it and thank god in this case nobody was injured and it had a happy ending. Haven't been around here in a while and I wonder why. In case you haven't realised yet.............you're a fuckin'' idiot. Shut 'er down.

 

So very well said - and in Newfie-ise.

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Unfortunately it has been 3 years and can't remember the empty weight of the helicopter

 

It may be 3 years but your memory and judgment is still spot on.

*disclaimer - I wasn't there either, just my knowledge*

say the machine is 7400?

1000 gas

1200 pax and gear

 

9600 lbs

almost a 1000 below gross....you'll only be hovering at 75 +/- TQ

 

if you fly the 76 machine by the numbers it will fly exactly as advertised. Respect the machine and it will respect you.

It isn't gutless......just limited

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