A Good Call Guys!

[KyleP]

Glad everything turned out ok. As a Paramedic with BC ambulance we see alot of tight landing spots. Alot of the time there just isnt anything safer within the immediate area.

[SuddenStop]

As the Paramedic then Kyle, step up in the pretense of safety, and change the norms that the industry has been stuck in, and make a positive effort to prevent the worse case scenario.

So far I've seen a couple guys who think this is perfectly alright to continue with these risks.

It has to start somewhere, and if you can sign up, log on and make the statement you did here, you can just as easy talk to your supervisor too.

While you're around kyle, does BC ambulance currently have a policy on scene landings? if they do, could you share it with us?

 

 

In todays world where litigation is continually lingering to run our lives, our jobs and futures, everyone needs to CYA. I recently took a legislation course which opens your eyes to the responsibilites of those in command. How easy it is to find yourself in jail and facing hefty fines for simply a bad decision.

 

How many pilots, who caused such an incident or worse, are ready to use the only defense as "we always land in tight spots".

[AH1]

KyleP: Your not a pilot. Period. You should not be suggesting that there is an allowable element of risk that should be pushed by aircrew just because it's a medivac. When's the last time a customer jumped in and said "sorry, totally my fault for pushing, punish and fine me"?

I've done medivacs, and I completely distance myself from the patient. All decisions are made exclusive of someone elses urgency.

[rotorheadrob]

if you look carefully you will see that was a turn around the nose. The mast starts on the left side of the center line and ends on the right side. Not sure why the PIC let it drift toward the only obstruction there, but he did. Precision hovering and tail placement are 2 of the most important skills a working pilot can have. In that video I dont see either one!

 

 

 

rob

[Ryan]

I think the element of risk put on crews is placed there by themselves, especially if it's a medivac. When I flew with HJ on the ambulance I never once felt direct pressure from the BCAS dispatchers or the medics we carried in the back. Very professional people. Any stress I felt was put there by me alone.

[coolhand110]

Not sure where you are coming from suddenstop. You are clearly not a pilot and have no idea what we do on a day to day basis. You may feel that you are an expert on these subjects, however you have a very limited scope as to what happens in the real world. Helicopter pilots do landings in unprepared landing areas all of the time. There is no one there to evaluate sites for you. When I have done scene calls, I have had to find my own landing sites because someone like yourself tried to place me in an unsafe landing area. There is nothing wrong with the way operations are carried out, and you will probably not find that BCAS has regulations for landing at scene calls. This is left to Transport Canada, the Operator as well as the Pilot in Comand. As for putting ORNGE's information on a public site without their approval, think about what you are doing. And just because ORNGE does things one way, does not make it right for all. You really should pull your head out of your ***. Yes the crew made some errors in judgement, however, you do not criticise an entire system because of it. At some point you have to put faith and trust in the pilots that they will do their job safely.

 

It is amazing how someone like yourself can take a course on Litigation, and maybe prepare a couple of landing sites and you are not only an expert on Air Ambulance Operations, bit allso **** near a lawyer, ready to prosecute the first pilot to make a mistake. Clearly your employer is an equal opportunity employer, they even hire RETARDS!!!!

 

Helijet as well as ORNGE have an excellent safety record. Just look at the the amout of hours flown or the amount of landing carried out per year. Time again to focus on what is important, learn from the mistakes from others, and possibly incorporate more confined areas in training.

 

Suddenstop, please pull your head out of your *** and listen to the people who do this for a living. That is why you have 2 ears and only one mouth!!!!

[SuddenStop]

Ornge information was found on a google search....I'm sure they're not too worried about me posting it.

We also have a handout from ornge on our trucks for reference as well as our own proceedure for medevac landings that literally mimics theirs.

We follow the guidelines set forth to the letter.

You say BCAS has no guidelines?? (i don't care about TC regulations btw)

how do they train then? just set everyone free to be freelancers and do what they want? you can bet when there is an accident, they'll be r*ped in court.

 

I am not a pilot, but i am concerned for my safety and the safety of my guys on the ground.

I will continue to follow ornges guide and will allow their pilots to make their own decisions, no pilot needs to take my zone for granted, and i don't get offended if they opt for a different location. However, should some yahoo/stick jockey/arrogant a$$, pull a stunt and endanger those on the ground as this pilot did and endanger my crew, I will be forthright and quick with a formal complaint to their management, fully expecting a logical response.

 

 

I'm 23 years in this industry, so I know how the real world thinks thank you.

I'm watching the industry change and know that old school crap is on its way out in favor of safety. When will you get on board and think about the big picture?

[coolhand110]

This is clearly not going in the right direction. This is a simple case of a pilot making a mistake, nothing else. Safety is the utmost of everyones concern. The pilots in this particular incident have always shown themselves to be true professionals. No pilot would ever put peoples lives at risk on purpose. There is no old school crap in play here. We are all professionals, and conduct ourselves that way while at work. You are making a judgement on a video that only gives a one dimensional view.

 

Suddenstop, I will appologize for my previous post, had one of those nights. However, do take a step back and take a look at what you are saying. Any task has it's inherant risks, and it is our training and experience that we rely on to get through the day safely, just as your job would would. These pilots simply made a mistake. There is no need to look for an even larger fault in an entire operation. I have worked with many of the ORNGE pilots when the worked for Helijet, and still do today flying offshore in thailand. There are no cowboys or people hotdogging, just people trying to do their job as best they can.

 

I do have the big picture from all angles. I have 7 years with the police and have been flying since 1995. So I have worked on both sides of the street, setting up landing areas as well as landing in them. I also know both pilots personally having many hours in the cockpit with both of them, and have a complete understanding of the culture at Helijet as well as BCAS.

 

So I say lets quit with the witch hunt and move on.

[blueguppy]

When watching the video, there is a lot more to see than just the drama of wires flying.

 

There are people and trucks at 12 o'clock, tall trees at ll oclock, houses and powerlines to the 3 oclock. There are folks behind us (taking the video).

 

There is a S76 model that is not known for having a huge power reserve, so hovering over a ditch is not something that is a 'good' choice in most situations. In a machine with a lower power reserve, the focus may come into the cockpit managing the power rather than outside, where in this case it should have been. The patient may have had some influence on decision making whether the pilot was conscious or not.

 

In training and PPC's, a majority of pilots have a habit of rotating the aircraft centered around themselves when doing a turn rather than the tail. Turning around the tail takes more focus to do accurately and when loaded up with all the other stuff it, perhaps, goes out the window. Pilots with lots of time in confined areas usually adopt a skill of rotating about the tail as a course of action.

 

Folks with a two pilot IFR or military background are often more process focussed because of training and the checksheet is a vital part of the process (The risk is when it is a at the expense of other things). VFR bush folks are more worried about the trees and give less credence to the checklist.

 

This all may be true or maybe someone was just not alert enough or was 'complacent'. How much we like someone or their past history has no bearing on decision making. As pilots our last flight is the one that counts and the one that we are remembered for. We all know pilots who died as a 'great guy' from making mistakes that were avoidable. It should not happen but it does.

 

We have all made mistakes and regret them. This incident could have been their last flight and as such we should all try to learn from their unfortunate lapse in memory. I have and most pilots have been in situations close to this and were lucky not to be caught on video. We were also then not subject to the criticism of our peers and those with too little knowledge to speak objectively.

 

I am glad it wasn't me, and I would be humiliated by all of the arm chair analysis from everyone else. (including ME)

 

The video is a great teaching tool for both PDM and CRM and I hope I can learn from it.

[R22Captain]

Folks with a two pilot IFR or military background are often more process focussed because of training and the checksheet is a vital part of the process (The risk is when it is a at the expense of other things). VFR bush folks are more worried about the trees and give less credence to the checklist.

 

yep we IFR people don't care about anything outside the cockpit......heads down gear up....wwee hhawww

 

There is a S76 model that is not known for having a huge power reserve, so hovering over a ditch is not something that is a 'good' choice in most situations. In a machine with a lower power reserve, the focus may come into the cockpit managing the power rather than outside, where in this case it should have been

 

can you see the torque gauge from the video?

gas gauge?

105lb cute little medics in the back?

-5 or +20?

 

nope you don't know......

 

glad no one got hurt......sorry that it had to be on video and on here

good guys from the few I've met from HJ.