A Good Call Guys!

[Ryan]

You missed the context of that comment Sir.

 

The poster indicated he would just like to stand over me and tell me i was doing it wrong with no indication I was.

I'm not perfect, but he has no basis for his logic what so ever. At least not in this argument.

 

So, as fairness would dictate, he may call me out on an error, ONLY when one was noted.

 

That's exactly my point, thank you for seeing it yet not quite understanding it. You also have no basis for anything you're saying here, you are not a pilot.... and having worked in close proximity to a few doesn't make you qualified to judge anything regarding what we do. Just like I would never have a leg to stand on if I were trying to judge your performance as a medic. I too would be totally full of ####.

 

To compare this minor incident with a dreamt up fireball scenario is a low blow buddy. Almost everyone here has lost at least one friend in a fiery crash. We do not need you reminding us of what happens when things go very very bad. We also know far more than you ever will what is at stake every time we go to work.

[MMike]

I dunno.....I think it's hard to blow this off as "#### happens". The whole profession has very little room for error. That is part of the game is it not?

 

I've always found it curious that pilots do not (typically) have much by way of mirrors to be able to see their tail rotor. They seemingly have to rely on memory that there is a potential obstacle. An S-76 is about as long as a pretty big truck. And though I'm not a pilot, I have maneuvered some pretty big trucks in my day. And without mirrors I'd have been hooped.

 

As an ignorant layman, I can see that in this case, that mistake was an easy one to make. But that's why pilots get so much training right? To mitigate these mistakes?

 

And again, this is all hindsight and armchair quarterbacking etc etc......but would it almost make sense to have the people who set up the LZ in a confined space then act as spotters, with hand signals to the pilots reminding them of obstacles.....or something? Who knows, maybe the pilot DID remember the lines were there but misjudged how long his aircraft was....

 

Sufficed to say though, I don't think it can be chalked up to "#### happens". Nor can you say "I'll come to your job and ***** when you screw up". Because I screw up plenty during a given day......but chances are it can't kill anyone when I do. While of course they are human, pilots are subject to higher scrutiny. That's just the way of things.

[R22Captain]

What is up with all the non pilots giving the crew #### on here?

 

Well said again Ryan:)

[MMike]

What is up with all the non pilots giving the crew #### on here?

 

Well said again Ryan:)

 

Because a few of the pilots are excusing a bad call as "whoopsiedaisy".

 

Non-pilots are not allowed to critique what we see, just because "you couldn't possibly understand what it's like maaaaan......."??

 

 

and the pilots needn't get their knickers all wadded up. I've said a few times that it's easy to find fault in hindsight. But it doesn't change that there was "fault". I'm sure the pilot is beating himself up over it more than anyone.

[Ryan]

I can see your point Mike, and you're speaking your peace far better than the other guy.

 

In my opinion, the whole "#### happens" saying isn't what it might appear. As pilots, when things like this happen, we have to say that otherwise we wouldn't come into work the next day. It would just eat at you and make you crazy with anxiety. I realize it probably sounds fairly nonchalant but it's quite the opposite.

 

The way a pilot might typically look at something like this is:

Plan for the best,

Expect the worst...

And even then, #### happens.

 

We're human and make mistakes and we know it (well most of us know it lol). Sometimes things happen beyond our control, and despite all our best effort sometimes we fly ourselves straight into ####. It happens and the best we can hope is to learn from it and not repeat it.

[coolhand110]

Suddenstop, you are correct in wanting safety to be the highest priority for all. You are also correct when you talk about liability, however, where you are not correct is going off about how this is such a huge safety issue. Helijet has been operating the ambulance program for something like 10-12 years and ORNGE for about 30ish. The fact that there have been maybe 2 incidents and 1 accident between the 2 in 40 years of operation should tell you that company SOP's and how they operate are extremely safe. You are unfortunately fighting the wrong fight here. Good for you that you are trying to make a point, but you have nothing to back you up. These are extremely safe operations. If there was something unsafe, someone would have pointed it out long ago and fixed it.

 

As for those who say the A model is underpowered and could not have just done a vertical take off, you are somewhat wrong in this case. An A model at sea level with an OAT of 6-8 degrees, 1000 lbs of fuel, 2 pilots weighing 300lbs total, 2 ALS guys around 400 lbs and a patient of lets say 200 as well, has no power issues. Summer is when these have issues or at altitude. I am also only guessing here, but I would assume that the pilots were planning to do a clear way departure over the field to the left. So power was not an issue.

 

Now the guy who worked at HJ and claimed that the guys he worked with had no VFR time, I would tend to disagree. Most of the guys I worked there with and know well have all flown VFR. However, that is really not a valid arguement either. These are professional experienced Ambulance pilots.

 

Yes #### happens, and it is not the best to describe incidents like this, however don't take it as pilots saying that this is no big thing, cause it is. The people here were very lucky, and those who fly know what the worst case senario is. Pilots are professionals and act that way while flying. So Mike, understand that the term does not really express how pilots truly feel about these incidents. You can also bet that the pilots do feel bad, and if given the oportunity to do it again, there would be a different outcome. I haven't met a pilot yet that does not make mistakes, and you can change pilot to any other occupation in thew world.

[sirlandsalot]

Uggg, some of you guys.....

 

1st. Having a spotter may help, however when the spotter spots you into a stike, guess who´s fault it will be. I only go into and out of confines when I, the captain are 100% sure of my clearence. Nothing like coming in and landing/taking off and having 5 people waving you in and 5 more saying it´s to tight.

 

2nd. If the Helicopter does not have to performance to exit a confined safley, it is the pilots job to to say no. If we flew like that, we would all be stuck in a lot of confines trying to figure out where to drain the fuel and leave everyone behind. I doubt there was a power issue as I am sure they where trained to evaluate a departure path before landing.

 

3rd. Sudden stop, there is nothing more frusterating as a pilot, than a passanger such as yourself, that thinks because you wear a flight helmet in the back, gives you the right to slag these guys and the company they work for. Maybe you should just go back on strike so we can privatize.

 

4. The pilots screwed up, both of them did. I am sure this will be discussed in training for years to come, it´s called learning from your mistakes. The good thing is, now helijet has one more pilot that will never do that again! I will not judge him because I have nocked a tip cap off before as well. I felt sick for 3 days and even contemplated my future as a pilot. The part cost I think...$34.00, probally the cheapest experience I will ever get! wont do that again!.There is no doubt that many of you have had a strike, or been too close. It was importamt for me to get to the point of saying "Sh*t happens" to move on, but maybe we can add to that "don´t do it again".

 

5. I am sure the captain of the machine has plenty of experience, and if you are reading all this, get over it, keep focus of your job, we have all been there!

 

6. having a incident with anybody on board, not jsut a patient is never good. There may be Professional Ambulence pilots, but we all are PILOTS and we all do rescue at some point.I have felt the pressure, hauled many bodies, bleeding sceaming kids, quadrunner accidents with IV bags hanging of the headset hooks slapping me in the side if the helmet. We all recieved simular VFR training and we all learned how to evealuate a LZ from day 1.

[__________]

Well said Coolhand110

 

There are too many "Experienced" non-pilots and pilots out there ready to scrutinize a guy and give there opinion on a situation without even knowing helicopter types, performance, configurations, engine type, model etc. Most do not know how much is involved and all the risks involved. So i sympathize for the pilot and ****** what happened, mistakes happen to the best of us and that will never change and they will pay for the consequence what ever they maybe, but i hope they don't have to read all the BS posted on public forums. The only thing we can do is try to learn from an incident or accident. One thing Sudden stop made me think about is that these guys don't get paid enough to most likely have a lot of there approaches and departures on video these days then get analyzed by all who care to speak there mind. I just hope If or when i **** up it's not on video and posted on a public forum............

 

 

[sirlandsalot]

Well said Coolhand110

 

There are too many "Experienced" non-pilots and pilots out there ready to scrutinize a guy and give there opinion on a situation without even knowing helicopter types, performance, configurations, engine type, model etc. Most do not know how much is involved and all the risks involved. So i sympathize for the pilot and ****** what happened, mistakes happen to the best of us and that will never change and they will pay for the consequence what ever they maybe, but i hope they don't have to read all the BS posted on public forums. The only thing we can do is try to learn from an incident or accident. One thing Sudden stop made me think about is that these guys don't get paid enough to most likely have a lot of there approaches and departures on video these days then get analyzed by all who care to speak there mind. I just hope If or when i **** up it's not on video and posted on a public forum............

 

 

 

 

Well said, believe half of what you hear and nothing of what you see. Human nature to critisize it seems, all I know is I hate the feeling those pilots are living right now, and all this BS on here sure as **** is not helping. Let the SMS roll and move on.

[hybrid]

That post sirlandsalot was right to the point and makes complete sense. That should be the end of the thread, but it probably won't. Nothing p****s me off more than an armchair pilot, few have a clue what is going on and they usually have their own agenda.