Flight Duty Time Limitations In Other Jurisdictions

[hybrid]

Change is coming,,,yeah probably but hopefully not in the method of the pendalum theory,,,you know, go to the opposite extreme then find a happy place.

 

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A vfr drill pilot who has moved his drillers and geos onsite at 7 am, slung a few loads to/from the drill then is fishing a lovely salmon filled stream, gone back to camp, cleaned the machine, had lunch, done some paperwork, picked the geos up, then goes out to switch out the drillers at 7 pm,,,maybe does a bit of fishing after that and machine is packed up. 14 hour duty day,,,no problem,,,can do that indefinatly.

 

 

 

Drill camps would likely be the biggest victim of major FDT changes Skullcap. I will give you another scenario. Pilot wakes up @ 5:45 gets breakfast, does DI and is airborne @ 6:45 for crew change at 7:00, but has 3 drills......... Picks up core from 3 drills and then has to take diesel to the 3 drills. Then sets out geos, then one of the drills needs moved, then there is a crew change right after that at the strip....... Anyways you get the point. That is all part of the job and can be quite fun and challenging, depending on the pilot and the day. The biggest problem in the camps is not usually the flying, it is the living conditions. All the above is safe if you are well rested, but if you are stuffed into a tent with 3 other people and one or more snores all night, or disrupts your sleep in any number of ways, sleep will not be sufficient. The problem could be resolved if companies set standards for proper living conditions and pilots holding them accountable to them. I hear the argument that it is not possible to provide decent accommodation in very remote areas, it is BS. I have seen pretty fantastic conditions in very remote areas, it is the cost of doing business.

 

I don't often agree with P5, but representation for pilots would be a good thing for the industry. An association doesn't have to be in conflict with the managers either, as the industry could be standardized and be beneficial to both. The root of the problem is, pilots and engineers (like companies) will not stick together for anything. We all ***** about the wages and conditions in the industry, but will not unite to change them. Companies have to lower their rates to bid on contracts, if they don't they perish. If you are bidding your aircraft at reduced rates to compete and survive, wages will be the first victim to reduce costs, second will be to reduce the amount of pilots that a company hires.

 

This does relate to FDT as it will be an additional cost to companies in staff, training and travel costs to name a few. If the companies are struggling already, this will only make it tougher. In Canada it seems to be a race to the bottom, until pilots, engineers and owners start working in the same direction, nothing will change. I have heard it many times that the rates in Canada are far below world standard rates. FDT times are one area that it would be beneficial for everyone to provide a united collective front on.

 

I am not optimistic that will happen, all one has to do is look at the division on this forum. TC will dictate the FDT and we will all complain, but I highly doubt we will address the issue with any unity or common sense.

[skullcap]

I agree with you on the accomodation for sure. It is often times a point of contention and although we do share some accomodation it is sometimes not to share with the AME as he can have late nights so will share with someone who has similar sleeping patterns. But we have left jobs due to the lack of descent food, cleaning facilities, and sleeping accomodation. It is quite interesting that the crew one the job moving drills didn't mind but the pilot was an investor and thus had a conflict of interest,,arse.

[FREDDIE]

Did I see stuffed in a tent with three other people back there. I say pardon. I always fought long and hard for aircrew having their own tent.Stand up for your rights under CARS. It is one thing to share a tent with your engineer but with other crews a definite No No. I have had just as good rest as I have at home even living in a tent.I have spent a lot of tours living in a tent with snow,rain and screaming Artic winds howling. Aircrew gets their own tent period. Explain to your customer that you need that they will believe you, talk with your bosses they should back you, If you were my employee and called telling me this issue I would back you.I know that your engineer may not be on the same schedule as you but normally they will respect your rest.

[Skids Up]

P5

 

The harsh reality is that until the rank and file pilots and engineers have some form of representation we will continue to have no say in anything that pertains to our well being and future. To suggest that HAC represents our interests is disengenuous.

 

You guys know that HAC is open to you, right? A bunch of pilots still complaining that they have no representation, no opportunity to present a united front, etc etc etc.

 

I believe it's safe to say that HAC is fighting for you and our industry. Perhaps if you all would get involved, really involved in trying to make a difference, instead of always defaulting back to the "Old boys club" excuse, maybe things could be changed.

 

HEPEC tried and most said: 'Not me until they do something!"

 

HAC is trying, yet everyone says they don't care about pilots and engineers.

 

Only thing certain here is you can't change things by yourself, so unless you become involved as an individual, or part of a group, you will always continue to be SOL.

 

And yes, for those who do or do not know, I am still not an operator, just an individual that is involved and gets to have my little voice heard once in a while. Will I change the world? Probably not, but at least I willing to try and help.

 

klw

[hybrid]

Did I see stuffed in a tent with three other people back there. I say pardon. I always fought long and hard for aircrew having their own tent.Stand up for your rights under CARS. It is one thing to share a tent with your engineer but with other crews a definite No No. I have had just as good rest as I have at home even living in a tent.I have spent a lot of tours living in a tent with snow,rain and screaming Artic winds howling. Aircrew gets their own tent period. Explain to your customer that you need that they will believe you, talk with your bosses they should back you, If you were my employee and called telling me this issue I would back you.I know that your engineer may not be on the same schedule as you but normally they will respect your rest.

 

You sound like me at one time FREDDIE, but there was no support from fellow pilots, managers or clients. I am not complaining, like many others though I removed myself from the situation. (hopefully) I know lots of aircrew that realized that they are not going to change it by themselves, so they changed the course of their career.

 

This topic of crew accommodation, Flight and Duty Times, tariffs and general working conditions is at the top of the list for productive conversation on this forum. IMHO Skids Up has come up with a possible solution in HAC, I was planning to attend the symposium but had to go back to work. Imagine Owners, Managers, AME's and pilots working towards solutions for the betterment of the industry as a whole.........

[pilot5]

You guys know that HAC is open to you, right? A bunch of pilots still complaining that they have no representation, no opportunity to present a united front, etc etc etc.

 

I believe it's safe to say that HAC is fighting for you and our industry. Perhaps if you all would get involved, really involved in trying to make a difference, instead of always defaulting back to the "Old boys club" excuse, maybe things could be changed.

 

HEPEC tried and most said: 'Not me until they do something!"

 

HAC is trying, yet everyone says they don't care about pilots and engineers.

 

Only thing certain here is you can't change things by yourself, so unless you become involved as an individual, or part of a group, you will always continue to be SOL.

 

And yes, for those who do or do not know, I am still not an operator, just an individual that is involved and gets to have my little voice heard once in a while. Will I change the world? Probably not, but at least I willing to try and help.

 

klw

 

 

Ok Skidz if HAC is indeed looking out for the average joe, then lets see the next President and coorecponding chairs of the various commitees a represenation of the group you claim they represent have that represenation. I'm not going to hold my breath on this one.

 

Please inform me when this is going to happen, in which case I will believe that HAC will focus its efforts to continue to support commercial beneficial ends in the true spitit of what is best for the grassroots people that do the job every day.

 

Frankly is a niave assumption to assume this is ever going to happen.

 

Im living in the real world, not in a world of wishfull thinking. It may benefit persons of like minded thinking to abide by same.

 

P5

[R22Captain]

left side of page

http://www.h-a-c.ca/

 

http://www.h-a-c.ca/F_DT_Submission_ENGLISH.pdf

[R22Captain]

Ok Skidz if HAC is indeed looking out for the average joe, then lets see the next President and coorecponding chairs of the various commitees a represenation of the group you claim they represent have that represenation. I'm not going to hold my breath on this one.

 

Please inform me when this is going to happen, in which case I will believe that HAC will focus its efforts to continue to support commercial beneficial ends in the true spitit of what is best for the grassroots people that do the job every day.

 

Frankly is a niave assumption to assume this is ever going to happen.

 

Im living in the real world, not in a world of wishfull thinking. It may benefit persons of like minded thinking to abide by same.

 

P5

:angry:

 

Our group of pilots were asked by transport to take part in a work group discussion regarding the changes. We were asked our OPINIONS on what WE as PILOTS had to say regarding proposed changes. I'd have to count but there must have been close to 100 pilots on the list. Everyone was asked their PERSONAL OPINION. Emails circulated for a few weeks, then ideas were taken to the next level.

 

How much info went to the next level? Not sure, but at least we as pilots had a voice. We were just one "sub workgroup" but it was nice to be included in a rather large decision.

[skullcap]

Did I see stuffed in a tent with three other people back there. I say pardon. I always fought long and hard for aircrew having their own tent.Stand up for your rights under CARS. It is one thing to share a tent with your engineer but with other crews a definite No No. I have had just as good rest as I have at home even living in a tent.I have spent a lot of tours living in a tent with snow,rain and screaming Artic winds howling. Aircrew gets their own tent period. Explain to your customer that you need that they will believe you, talk with your bosses they should back you, If you were my employee and called telling me this issue I would back you.I know that your engineer may not be on the same schedule as you but normally they will respect your rest.

 

 

Although agree with you on the not sharing tents as per cars, I do not necessarily need to share(if have to share) with an AME as meantioned they work different hours. Perhaps you are used to a machine such as an Astar where the AME only works late if there is an issue or inspection, not a medium or friggin lama where they work every night, then is kinda nice to get to sleep ontime and not get brought to attention every time they come in and then make a log book entry with the light on. So No NO turns into Yes yes once in awhile,,, I have taken my little tent out while at forestry camps and put it up in a quiet place, your own quiet area is very valuable in my opinion.

 

Am very glad the HAC and fellow pilots ARE doing there best to input suggestions to make the industry safe and profitable and thank those folks.

[pilot5]

:angry:

 

Our group of pilots were asked by transport to take part in a work group discussion regarding the changes. We were asked our OPINIONS on what WE as PILOTS had to say regarding proposed changes. I'd have to count but there must have been close to 100 pilots on the list. Everyone was asked their PERSONAL OPINION. Emails circulated for a few weeks, then ideas were taken to the next level.

 

How much info went to the next level? Not sure, but at least we as pilots had a voice. We were just one "sub workgroup" but it was nice to be included in a rather large decision.

 

Wow 1 sub work group! dont like what you hear and it is dismissed immediately! especially if it goes aginst the grain of economic gain. R22 you would have to be a complete moron to believe that unless you have the power to change policy- President perhaps or Chair of a work group the whole thing just goes nowhere. Please! How about internal asocaition fines for vilolations of the Canadian labor code and HAC funds to pay for legal council for pilots that are being railroaded!! I'll second a motion on that one... Please its a jok to assume HAC is going to do anything to confront the real problems facing pilots and engineers. Pay equity? the list goes on!

 

 

Dream Land!

 

P5