DrDukeSolomon Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 P5, I support what you are doing toward the OMNR. Makes people accountable for their actions. the Duke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helirider212 Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 I also support you and wish I could offer more than just saying "good luck" I voice my opinion to them when ever I can in such a way as to hopefully not draw the 'wrath",,we all need to speak up more.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksteady Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 You pilots, as professionals, also need to step up to the plate to get the way-sub-par pilots ousted from the fires.....The poor pilots are just as much of a hazard to you folks being safe as they are to me.....Maybe even more....Talk to your air-co (please......) There are a lot of geat pilots out there, however some of them cna not handle the stress and chaos of fires......Maybe they should be flying ***/trash missions for overheads, or better off, doing sight seeing tours at their home base... Safe flying gents and ladies, keep it safe and don't be afraind to speak out if staff or other pilots ar putting your safety at risk PS....Yes I am from the BCFS....30 yars of doing this job and not afaid to speak out about a poor pilot/cook/cat operator/fire fighter/what ever the job.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphadog Posted July 1, 2011 Report Share Posted July 1, 2011 You pilots, as professionals, also need to step up to the plate to get the way-sub-par pilots ousted from the fires.....The poor pilots are just as much of a hazard to you folks being safe as they are to me.....Maybe even more....Talk to your air-co (please......) There are a lot of geat pilots out there, however some of them cna not handle the stress and chaos of fires......Maybe they should be flying ***/trash missions for overheads, or better off, doing sight seeing tours at their home base... Safe flying gents and ladies, keep it safe and don't be afraind to speak out if staff or other pilots ar putting your safety at risk PS....Yes I am from the BCFS....30 yars of doing this job and not afaid to speak out about a poor pilot/cook/cat operator/fire fighter/what ever the job.... So,Rocksteady,what is your opinion on the issue that Pilot5 had with your like from Ontario?Do you think that the Ontario gov.employee was right in his approach? Does the fact that anyone is working for a gov.agency makes him/her an expert on identifying hazardous pilots?Can this process of sending someone home (to fly sight seeing tours) be a bit bias and at times based on personal likes/dislikes ?Is it right that any gov. agency employee can threaten anyone with loss revenue if a certain person is working for them? Sure,you are outspoken and let cooks,pilots etc know what you think...but would you act the same if if your bacon that you take home for your family was endangered by someone with a chip on their shoulder and the power to say "go home and do not come back"? I think that government employees have this attitude based on certain unspoken rules instituted by themselves.this is 21st century and more and more law suits like the above mentioned will put you in right place.Sure,you are the customer but you are still working for the public ,getting paid from public money.The process of identifying unsafe pilots should follow a pattern and a procedure not the simple 'my word against your word".The government employee that triggers such process for no just cause should also be liable and subject to discipline. My 2 cents... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnie Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Alphadog: Very good post there. I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately in our business there are pilots that are not as good as the others. I can by example single myself out as a sub-par long-line driver, but then again, that just prevents me from doing some of the jobs, and does NOT mean I am sub par in everything else I do! Perhaps there SHOULD be instituded a better program, ala the "carding" that USFS does? so that you have to drop 10 bucketloads in a certain area, and do 10 hover emplanes/exits, 10 sling load lifts etc? It would have to be run by an independednt agency, and the grader would have to be someone who knows something about the particular work, and should perhaps be a pilot. Cheers Harald. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphadog Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Alphadog: Very good post there. I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately in our business there are pilots that are not as good as the others. I can by example single myself out as a sub-par long-line driver, but then again, that just prevents me from doing some of the jobs, and does NOT mean I am sub par in everything else I do! Perhaps there SHOULD be instituded a better program, ala the "carding" that USFS does? so that you have to drop 10 bucketloads in a certain area, and do 10 hover emplanes/exits, 10 sling load lifts etc? It would have to be run by an independednt agency, and the grader would have to be someone who knows something about the particular work, and should perhaps be a pilot. Cheers Harald. Thanks .I agree,a carding system should be in place.Once carded,any complains about the skill/capabilities should be investigated based on a written hazard or incident reporting system under revue by qualified personnel.Color of your eyes and personal traits or lack of thereof should be of no significance in the process.Also the carding system should identify the type of missions you are allowed to participate in.I.e:spot drops,precision long lining or just long lining and belly hooked loads...etc.I think Alberta has some incipient form of testing left to the latitude of the employer.Fire agencies to a certain extent have similar mentalities with the good oll oil field/rig pigs (I have been a rig pig myself for years-no offense intended ) .Times have changed,society has progressed,safety has reached a paramount importance in all industries.Also, bullying attitudes and unwritten customs will have to vanish. I will bring another fact to the attention of those that are reading this tread.If you launch an illegitimated complaint against any member of AUPE ( Alberta forestry dudes are all members of it,even the casual staff for the summer),the above named union will go trough **** and high watter to protect its member from unfair treatment from ASRD management and from your possibly unfair or bias complaint. Same will happen if the complaint is legitimate...I know,I know...Who will speak in your behalf ?Your employer?Even under the threat that your company will not be working again for forestry? I doubt it. Food for taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot5 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well, it is what it is! I would think that when a pilot gets to the experience level when he is flying medium helicopters his skill and prudence and attitude towards safety had developed to the standards acceptable to forestry standards. A pilots actions to support safety should be the first priority. Perhaps OMNR should annie up 5 million or so do a deal with NAV CAN that Dryden can have a full tower to manage the traffic. The whole is thing is just so un believable that I felt compelled to do something. I am certain that the OMNR have some good people working there who understand the concept of professionalism. Obviously not on this occasion. I would also suggest that is is not an isolated case and the problem is probably systemic. If I was a pilot thinking of working in Ontario with OMNR I would not completely disclude the idea that due to the professional incompetence of certain employees in The Dryden Office -that I could unexpectedly loose my job and have my professional reputation degraded seriously without any warning or reasonable recourse short of direct legal action. Well it can happen! I only hope that whatever comes of this information it serves clearly as a warning and adds some measure of corrective actions to prevent re-occurences. Thanks for some of the kind words fellas! P5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs205 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hey p5 , its been a while since those 2006 fires we were on together, hope the law suit goes well!!! Rocksteady, u seem like a good guy, but pilots are not born, they r trained, and get expierience from the jobs they do. I learned to longline while forestry paid the bill. If we do it your way, your gonna run outta pilots!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest plumber Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 You pilots, as professionals, also need to step up to the plate to get the way-sub-par pilots ousted from the fires.....The poor pilots are just as much of a hazard to you folks being safe as they are to me.....Maybe even more....Talk to your air-co (please......) There are a lot of geat pilots out there, however some of them cna not handle the stress and chaos of fires......Maybe they should be flying ***/trash missions for overheads, or better off, doing sight seeing tours at their home base... Safe flying gents and ladies, keep it safe and don't be afraind to speak out if staff or other pilots ar putting your safety at risk PS....Yes I am from the BCFS....30 yars of doing this job and not afaid to speak out about a poor pilot/cook/cat operator/fire fighter/what ever the job.... Its funny if a pilot were to run his mouth about unsafe forrestry practices or forestry people not performing to their own standard you can only guess who's not showing up to work the next day. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksteady Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hey p5 , its been a while since those 2006 fires we were on together, hope the law suit goes well!!! Rocksteady, u seem like a good guy, but pilots are not born, they r trained, and get expierience from the jobs they do. I learned to longline while forestry paid the bill. If we do it your way, your gonna run outta pilots!!! The point I was trying to get to is on the major fire complexs, multi aircraft, super high stress....maybe thats not the place to be "learning to longline"... In those scenarios, I want the competent,experienced pilots who have all the skills...ONES WHO CAN HANDLE THE STRESS AND CHAOS... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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