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Rocksteady! 30years, I wonder how many good people, families,and careers you have destroyed whilst conveying your self appointed aviation expertise.

 

As I have mentioned more than once I understand the inate requirement for everybody to feel important and if ratting out people drives your sense of importance and promotion then you fit the model of the typical forestry official that should leave the flying and associated saftey to those who are trained to do the job. We wont tell you how to use your hose and polaski??

 

Even in 2006 I had 3500hrs putting out fire Canada wide. For the most part the pilots even on big fires dont experienece stress and caos you describe. I will say though, that having a know it all provincial ladder climber who you know will rat you out and is constantly picking the flyshiit out the the pepper at every turn- this will will affect pilot performance and increase the stress level.

 

P5

 

First of all P5, I take offence to your first line of response here.....I am not a self appointed expert on aviation expertise...BUT If I see unsafe actions I act on them (Whatever level of action that may be).....If you wish for me to turn a blind eye and not deal with the issue, I can do that...But what would that solve???

 

I am not a ladder climber as you seem to think. I want everyone on the fires, including pilots to be able to go home at the end of the day.....

 

My point of stress and chaos, which you seem to have missed, is that doing a slinging job (for example) with one aircraft for a client in a solitary location, is not comparable (in my non-pilot opinion) to doing the same operation in a huge fire complex where there are dozens of machines on few air channels, with limited visibility. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out just from the radio chatter.....

 

I believe we are both on the same side here, we want safe operations on fires, we are just have 2 different solutions.

 

Don't read between the lines here all, If I see/observe a safety issue I do not terminate or black list the pilot, that is not my job. It goes to an aviation specialist, which will do an investigation. The result of the investigation would identify solutions.

 

The issue that Pilot 5 had in Ontario, I don't feel was well handled at all, but don't be painting all of us FS guys with the same brush.

 

Alphadog reports that he admits he is a sub par long liner...Good on him, he admits it and that gives us the ability to put him in a role/position that he is still working as part of the team, but not in a task that he admits he is a little rusty. Right tool (A/C) with the right operator to do the right job....

 

 

 

I did not respond to your posts right away as I feel it is a good discussion, but did not want it to go sideways into a name calling pissing match.

 

 

I am all for civil discussions of the issues....

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First of all P5, I take offence to your first line of response here.....I am not a self appointed expert on aviation expertise...BUT If I see unsafe actions I act on them (Whatever level of action that may be).....If you wish for me to turn a blind eye and not deal with the issue, I can do that...But what would that solve???

 

I am not a ladder climber as you seem to think. I want everyone on the fires, including pilots to be able to go home at the end of the day.....

 

My point of stress and chaos, which you seem to have missed, is that doing a slinging job (for example) with one aircraft for a client in a solitary location, is not comparable (in my non-pilot opinion) to doing the same operation in a huge fire complex where there are dozens of machines on few air channels, with limited visibility. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out just from the radio chatter.....

 

I believe we are both on the same side here, we want safe operations on fires, we are just have 2 different solutions.

 

Don't read between the lines here all, If I see/observe a safety issue I do not terminate or black list the pilot, that is not my job. It goes to an aviation specialist, which will do an investigation. The result of the investigation would identify solutions.

 

The issue that Pilot 5 had in Ontario, I don't feel was well handled at all, but don't be painting all of us FS guys with the same brush.

 

Alphadog reports that he admits he is a sub par long liner...Good on him, he admits it and that gives us the ability to put him in a role/position that he is still working as part of the team, but not in a task that he admits he is a little rusty. Right tool (A/C) with the right operator to do the right job....

 

 

 

I did not respond to your posts right away as I feel it is a good discussion, but did not want it to go sideways into a name calling pissing match.

 

 

I am all for civil discussions of the issues....

 

 

Rocksteady ya just don't get it... if you report something as unsafe you are assuming you are able to determine the difference..But I suppose you have seen it all???

 

As soon as your complaint (note sentence 1) has been referred to the " aviation specialist as you mention" The pilot will be removed and problably fired or worse blacklisted. Do you actually believe that the pilot will get so much as a chance to explain him self... Did you discuss it with him but disagreed based on your expertise in aviation.......???????

 

Herein lies the problem... You are not qualified to determine what is safe and what is unsafe.! Simple.

 

The issue I had in Ontario is as the result of someone just like yourself who felt he knew what he was talking about....and took action.

 

 

So the best thing for you to do rocksteady is to " do up you seat belt" and enjoy the ride. You are not qualified to have an opinion or to determine what is safe or unsafe.

 

P5

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Herein lies the problem... You are not qualified to determine what is safe and what is unsafe.! Simple.

 

The issue I had in Ontario is as the result of someone just like yourself who felt he knew what he was talking about....and took action.

 

 

So the best thing for you to do rocksteady is to " do up you seat belt" and enjoy the ride. You are not qualified to have an opinion or to determine what is safe or unsafe.

 

P5

 

We agree to disagree.....Fair enough....

 

I, with all due respect (no insult intended, implied or meant), hope that our travels never put us in the same aircraft, as we probably won't get along :) ......

 

However, I do wish you safe flying....

 

Cheers !!!

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Of course I know nothing and I'm stupid, and it is amazing that I'm able to tie my own shoes and feed myself....

 

But it doesn't sound like rocksteady is the problem, but the system for lodging concerns/complaints.

 

Say for a moment that rocksteady was a total layman. Truly knew nothing......like say me, because I am so stupid.

 

Say he witnessed something and was genuinely concerned about what he saw. And perhaps, the pilot is a large menacing fellow, and rocksteady is a 90 lb weakling with bladder control issues, and does not feel comfortable confronting the pilot? How is the onus on HIM to make sure he doesn't get the pilot in trouble?

 

The "system" is supposed to be there to protect EVERYONE. And if the "system" needs to be bypassed in order to protect pilots from being black-listed...well then there is something wrong with the "system". But that's not rocksteady's fault. He's calling him as he sees 'em. He should then be handing the ball off to the people in the "system" so that they can make an informed judgement on whether the questionable behaviour was in fact questionable.

 

But if you expect people to hem and haw and wonder if they should make someone aware about something they believe to be "questionable" (even if maybe it isn't).....that really doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

 

I will now welcome your abuse.

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My god, I just came on the forums for a quick peek, I have to say that I first worked with rocksteady on the ground starting in 1994. After 6 years of working on the ground I ended flying the helicopter with Rocksteady in the left seat. I can tell you P5, that it is nothing but a pleasure to work for this guy, he hopes only the best for everybody, he hopes that the crews get some good work, and he hopes the pilots get some good hours, and most important, he hopes we ALL get to go home at the hend of the day and do it all over again the next day.

 

P5...you are an absolute idiot, you complain more than anyone I have ever heard, you have enough opinions for for everybody on this entire forum and then some. You are the classic "captain that knows everything". why don't you drink a big tall glass of shut the F*ck up!

 

It's guys like you that should get black-booked becasue of the amount of bitching you do and stiring the pot. No kidding you have the reputation you do.

 

 

Rocksteady.....ignore this problem fool, thanks for all the work, all the great working conditions, and the good long days flying with no client pressure.

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always 2 sides to the story and this thread is reaching its max crap content fast... either be civil, express your opinion without being ignorant, and keep the sticks down.... by the way, sirlandsalot, this is NOT about your post...

 

last warning before i close it...

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always 2 sides to the story and this thread is reaching its max crap content fast... either be civil, express your opinion without being ignorant, and keep the sticks down.... by the way, sirlandsalot, this is NOT about your post...

 

last warning before i close it...

 

With all due respect, why don't you do some moderation instead of just closing the thread. There are a fair number of posts here that can be disposed of or edited without just closing the thread.

 

AR

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With all due respect, why don't you do some moderation instead of just closing the thread. There are a fair number of posts here that can be disposed of or edited without just closing the thread.

 

AR

I guess twinstar is the only opinion that counts

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My point of stress and chaos, which you seem to have missed, is that doing a slinging job (for example) with one aircraft for a client in a solitary location, is not comparable (in my non-pilot opinion) to doing the same operation in a huge fire complex where there are dozens of machines on few air channels, with limited visibility. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out just from the radio chatter.....

 

 

I would like to make a major point that has not been commented on.

With all due respect rocksteady, the difference, and it is vast, is the skill required to set a drill on the side of a cirque and line up bolt-holes without squishing fingers.

It is partially reproduced in a forestry environment by bucketting retardant from a tank at altitude, but since the original post dealt with ASRD and the OMNR, this isnt done often, if at all.

I just came off the ASRD monster which was the Bitumount Complex, 43 machines, smoke, etc and I am now in the rocks slinging drill. There is no comparison in skill required. Period. Radio chatter means little, and is overcome by the inexperienced in a day or two.

 

Just my $.02

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